@davidtdunn - What Makes Christian Musicians Walk Away From Jesus? w/ David Dunn

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we talk to David Dunn. He's a BEC Recording Artist that you've likely heard on a K-Love station near you. He's been a contestant on The Voice, played college basketball, and spent close to a year of his life in Zambia. He's a husband to Leen, dad to Rhodes and Rocket, and in this episode he shares his honest thoughts on the music industry, marriage, and parenting.

You can find David on YouTube, Instagram, and Spotify

Welcome back to another episode of young married Christian. Here, a young married Christian, we are in a mission to see a Gospel centered home made available for every single child in the foster care system and in this episode devot talks to one of my really good friends, David done. You have heard David on spotify, you heard him on a calb station near you. You probably even saw him on NB sees the voice a few years back. Dave is incredible, he is brilliant and you're going to live this conversation. Yeah, so brilliant and intelligent that I thought even I was intelligent for a while during the conversation. I mean, I loved where our conversation went. One of my favorite things was just getting to hear the history and the journey of where he went from the beginning until now, and everything with his career. A lot of unexpected twist and turns. Yeah, and one of the parts of the conversation that I really liked was da've talking about the cultural differences between Africa and the US. He actually lived in Zambia for about eleven months. I got to hang out with them in the summer of two thousand and eight in Zambia and so him talking about that dynamic was was super interesting. Yeah, and how alien our culture feels to that, and kind of how alien our Christian culture is to collaborations, apparently, because we talked about why we don't see as many Christian collaborations as we want. So hold onto your prayer beans, Whitney, because we are young, married Christian. It's Today. We Have David Done, Aka the day, Aka Double Ds, Aka throw some D's on it. I don't think any of those actually happen. I'm pretty sure those are all your nicknames. Okay, that's what's popping on wikipedia these days. I need to check out my wikipedia page then maybe do a few incognito edits. Okay. So we're so excited to have you today. Thank you so much for coming on the show. One thing that I need to ask all of our guests is what's your favorite fast food restaurant other than chick fil a, and when you go to it, what are you ordering? As easy, I think they might even have these in Florida. Nah, in an outburger, without question. We need it. I should say it's not in Florida. No, I should say Water Burger, because I'm from Texas and so it's blasphemous a little bit for me to say in an outburger, but I like I have an an outburger flowing through my veins inside. I've been flushing it. I'm sorry, I have water burger flowing through my veins and I have been slowly flushing it out within an outburger. And we don't have to ask you what you order because there's just one thing on the menu. Yeah, you get the double double. That's that, and you get it animal style. I do not get animal style. I don't get it Frisky. Do not get way animal styles frisky. No, it's frisky that you don't get it that way. Interesting. So okay, let's jump into it. The human condition. Your Song came eight years ago. What was going on when you wrote that Song? There's actually like two separate stories involved with that one. Okay, we'll start the first. Okay, first story is I was driving down the road in Nashville, Tennessee, is where I live. It's driving down the road and I felt as if I was doing a pretty good job of driving, but there was a woman behind me that the acreed, and so she like she like did the horn thing that and like right up on my bumper and I'm like that thing, what dude, what are you doing? And she like guns it and pulls up next to me and slams on the brake so that she's going the same thirty five miles an hour or whatever it was, going next to me, and then like looks out our window and tells me that I'm number one. Hey, that's good, and I have no idea why she was so upset, but she was. So that story number one. Store number two is like two days later I met Chick Fil a, God's house, Hmm, and I'm standing in line and this is cat in front of me. He's probably fifty five years old and he's bald and and I'm like half banging attention because that's mostly what I do. And and he's ordering and he like gets livid. There's like a sixteen year old girl who she works at Chick Fil at, so she's like the sweetish human being in the place. She's sitting back there taking his order and he like loses it on her. I just start screaming, causing a scene. So I tune in immediately, like Oh, Scott's house, what's they done? This can't be happening here. Happening here. This isn't pop eyes. You don't praise no offensive popeyes. I love your sandwich. You have some. That was very offensive Popeyes, but we'll move on. Like I'm just going off the videos I see on the Internet.

Pop Eyes is pretty good. Yeah, when they did like the chicken sandwich comparison thing, HMM, that was ridiculous, but those chicken sandwiches are good, though. Did you like pop eyes better? Yeah, yeah, of course you do, because they're better. They're way better, but they're good sandwiches. Yeah, I was shocked. What was I just talking about? You're saying that you're at Chickfila on the bould there was a kerfuffle. Nice word. So the dude flips out on this, on the sixteen year old girl, and and not in the course of like listening to him scream, I had figured out that he wanted like a handful of chickfil at sauces and she was offering him to which normally they'll give you a bunch, and so I can kind of I'm not on this guy's side, but in the same moment I'm going just a sixteen year old girl. She's looks very pleasant in this dude is living out on her yeah, I mean a lot of places are charging you per sauce packet, but not chickfully now. Well, maybe this location. I don't know. I don't really know what's going on on. All I know is that fifty five year old bald guy, the shy Mr Clean, was very angry tough times of that chick fil Ay. something. CUSE COVID MMM now wasn't this before? No explanation, excuse there. HMM. So anyway, all right, so those two stories have an exuccession. And here's what I realized. Mostly, when we interact with human beings on this planet, we brush them in passing and that's really all we get from them. We see this tiny blip on our radar and we make snap evaluations or judgments on who that person is based on these quick little passings. MMM, and I live on a street and we've lived there I think like a year. At this time. I lived on a street. Are Live on a street to we're really I don't know any of my neighbors and I was driving down that road and seeing all though it was at nighttime, I could just see all of these porch lights as a Wednesday night. I believe it was a Wednesday night. Funny, you know that it's in the song for people who don't know. Well, yeah, and I realized that the extent of my knowledge of these people is just this brush. That's all I know about them. And all of those porch lights represent an entire existence. Fifty, sixty, eighty, we live an older neighborhood, years of life that I really don't know any thing about. Most of US don't nowadays. It's not like our parents generation, where, you know, we went to our neighbor's house to get better and sugar and totally, but it extends to even like everyone rte you, you really only know a couple of people, handful this inner circle. You know these people because you've been in their lives and you want to stay in them. And everybody else it's just a brush. And so I don't know what those people's story is. I don't know what Mr Clean the story is a chick fil a, but he has one. And the woman with a finger, I don't know our story is either, but she has one. I'm going to make some things up here because I have no idea, but this could be the case. It could be that Mr Clean. He just found out he's getting evicted. It didn't have any money. He's gone in two days and here he is a chick fil a, and this is when I brushed him and I made the evaluation. This guy's a Choch. HMM, this guy's are jerk. Course this guy's the worst. That's my evaluation. Woman Finger, same thing. Maybe she found out that she has cancer. She just found out she has cancer. Probably not, if I I'm making this stump up here, but something right. There was an entire she was probably fifty. There's fifty years of reasons why she came to this point and maybe this is how she always is, or maybe this is just this moment. I don't know. Yeah, but there is a reason, and so human condition is is acknowledging that, that those brushes are occasions for us who love Jesus to be grace to other people, to be kind, because everyone has a story and we forget that. We forget that people have stories. We tend to treat them as if they are the brush that we thought they were. So I think that's when Jesus talks about judgment in the Bible. I think a big portion of that is is not acknowledging where people have come from, really their story, that people have stories, and I'm not excusing the behavior, not saying that it's okay what they did right, but it's so hard for people to have that empathy in the moment when they feel personally attacked and their pride walls come up and they immediately want to have that mirror neuron effect where you give it to me, I give it right back to you. Yeah, and then and then...

...for me it's like that. But the woman the finger especially, it's like a fifteen, twenty minute linger of me being like right, well, that story of you like telling her to go around. You Life Hack. If you didn't know this, if a cop flips on his lights behind you and you just roll down your window and you tell him to go around, sometimes that it confuse them enough to where they won't pull you over. Is that true? My father taught me that. I literally I watched it happen. I'll put that one in my hip pocket. Sorry. I would like to pause for a second to say I've been a lot of places in my life. I've been everywhere in the United States. That's not true, but we're all of the big places. MMM, and I do not believe that there are any worst drivers than people in Orlando Florida. Welcome home, son, Jan stay shocked by the amount of adaptitude. You people are delightful. Well, it's a combination of tourists, retirees and college kids over at Disney. He's a really tough Combo. Yeah, so that Song, even though it is written, you know, years ago, and it was, it sounds like you had these personal experiences that made it very relatable. And I mean who can't ever relate to needing more kindness in the world and and seeing the fact that, yeah, there are so many people out there that you don't know anything about their story. But like, last year to me felt like, I mean, obviously because of Covid it felt like a very different year, but it was groundbreaking because of like the racial division and the diversity that we experience as a country, which even like we took a vacation to the Virgin Islands and we could even see that, you know, black lives matter even there, and so it's something that hit our country in a very big way. So I feel like that songs even more relatable. Now. How did last year, with everything going on how that have an effect on you. Here's the thing I'm gonna I'm going to take a different tact here. Okay, here's what I'll say. I think last year was the year of the Internet. I know we say it's a year of Covid two thousand and twenty, but I think it was the year of the Internet. And here's what I believe is mostly what happened last year is that we lived in a space that wasn't real. The Internet is not real. Social media is not real, right, it's not me on social media that's talking to people. Is My avatar that I've created. What I got to do is look at people's paces. Those aren't their real lives. That's not the way they behave on social media. This is something they've created for themselves. You're telling me you and lean are not constantly smiling with your children. Yeah, I seek in the woods. Sometimes I have to clean up the poop all over me from my two year old. Okay, keep going, and by sometimes I mean all the time we're trying to potty tray. That's neither here nor there. What was I talking about, idd you're talking about how the Internet's not real. Right, yeah, so the Year of two thousand and twenty was the year of the Internet, right, and so with with basically all of the conflict, or a big portion of it, I think. I think the majority of it is is is the Internet being the Internet, right, the anger, the hostility, to frustration. I felt all of that, but it was on the Internet. you go out in real life and there was a couple of weeks to where I walked around and I'm a white guy and I walked around and every black person I saw I go like, I hates me. HMM, the dreads in hell, they do actually help in real life. Yeah, but that's the thing about real life and fake life, right, is is I came to the conclusion after a couple weeks this isn't real. Right, it is to a certain extent, but this isn't the way that the world actually is. Everybody doesn't hate everyone else, but on the Internet everyone hates everyone else, and so I think, I think, I think that's a big thing that I learned about two thousand and twenty is is the difference between reality and and the Internet. There I'm not saying it's not the case in bubbles and that it's a hundred percent off but the vehemence and hatred and and and throat slitting that is constantly happening on the Internet. It doesn't occur in any world that I'm around and I'm in. I'm around all, I think a big portion of the world's in Nashville especially, and for the most part you know it's how but was which there are good eggs and bad eggs and people are mostly kind to each other, with exceptions, and like. I don't think things actually like radically changed and hatred went to a new level like they did on the Internet. Like I don't believe that right, but people were believing it because we couldn't go outside to see anything different and we're watching. Is All we had last year. So we...

...all we had was the Internet, and that was happening at this second time. But I can't remember where this started now, but that's that's how I feel about last year. I think it started with tiger king, but started with mullets, which is how things always go downhill in a hurry, and we've ended with mollets. I don't know if you know this, but it's like a new big thing. My mom has held up some pictures of some kids in high school from my old stomping grounds. She's like this is what all the cool goods are doing now, when I was like, they're not cool. I once had a mullet. What are you saying? You're very cool. I'm just playing. Actually, I mind brought a mullet. Yeah, I want a Jedi braid so bad. But anyways, we're gonna off topic. So I feel like that what happened last year was we're all, you know, home, we are just getting our news from the internet or watching the news. We've got an election year. We have people that aren't going to their jobs. They got a lot of free time, so they're going out and doing a lot of stuff and you forget about the fact that there's so much kindness that you can create and that you and other people are creating, like the people that aren't getting put up on the news. You know, quick story. Two days ago we went to Universal Studios. There's crazy amount of traffic and I'm talking to James and he's saying, you know, he's in this like hour long wait or whatever, and I've just waited an hour and I get to the front I see a family. Their cars broke down, they've ran out of gas, coincidentally, you know what songs playing on my radio the human condition. Now we're talking. It was like literally God wasn't just whispering in my ear. God was like choke slamming me, and the fact that I just finished the season of Ted Lasso, it's just like all on my heart of like kindness. And then I'm hearing the story about you know, we might be on different roads, but we're on the same street and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I've got to do something, I've got held this guy out. So what do I do? I, after I've waited an hour in this line, I go around get this guy gas, come back and he's not even there anymore. I don't know what the meaning of that is, but I now have a really good connection with a security guy at universal victor. He's great guy. How similar was universal to your year in Africa? Yeah, yeah, the thing about that, I mean that's the main thing about Africa is, is that it was incredibly lonely, because I was I was the only Westerner, and you picked this up probably too when you were there, but because because it is so ingrained, couldture just profound loneliness occurs when nobody else speaks your language. I don't mean physically. They spoke English mostly in Zambia. But there's found loneliness when when human interaction that we consider this is what humans do, US, what we're doing right now, we got this is what humans do. It's not what humans do. HMM, it's what Westerners do, and in Africa they do it a different way, even like friendship. Friendship looks different than Africa than it does in the West. It's just, it's just these cultural differences are so, you know, so to the West and I think probably for them as well, but to the from a Westerner's perspective, it looks as if this is an alien society and I'm having to relearn how to be a being to be able to engage with them on the same wavelength. What were some of them readibly lonely over some of those things that you were just like, Oh wow, this is apparently not how you guys do it. It's a it's a difficult thing to explain. Probably one of the best ones. I'd love to know if you have any stories. Champs James came and visited me when I was there. We were just talking about that second ago, which was shocking. I totally forgot about that until fifteen seconds ago. How long were they are month to but you were that for two months. It's so wild. It was right on the edge of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh my God, I forgot. You were not there. Yeah, so I was there. I felt so lonely. It's a lonely what did you ask me of Theba? You said something. Sorry, I was asking you, you know, if there was anything that was obviously alienating about what they did. Not Alienating, alien, sorry, I was alien. I was an alienated so you felt part of the culture, but you feel like you were doing things a little differently. No, I did not feel like I was part of the culture.

A good way to do even like the way we're speaking right. This is a difficult thing to describe. This is a this is like one of the only bike really hard hitting examples that I have. Friendship is in Africa. It's it's more based on on sharing materials than it is in America. So you're saying materials, not like an Xbox, but you're saying more like you actually need this brick. I know. No, everything, okay, everything. So a good example was there was a dude in town. I lived in a place called Chingola and there was a dude in town who his expression of the depth of our friendship was for him to like walk into my hot that I was in when I wasn't there, and grab my clothes and take them for himself. And then I only knew because I was walking around town and there he was wearing my shirt and I walked up to him I was like Nice shirt. He was like yes, I love it right, and so it's like to them it is. It is like it's the expression of friendship how much you are willing to give me and me asking you for the thing. Hey, can I have your shirt? I'm not asking for your shirt, I'm asking you how deep is our friendship, and that's how we determine those things. So for us a big portion, and I'm I'm simplifying here, so, MMM, take this with a tiny grain of salt, but for us a big part of the what we do as Westerners is go what do we have in common? Do we enjoy being around each other and know, how many shared experiences do we have? And those things still exist. It's not like they're completely gone, but but they're the value chain of what's important is substantially different. I think I'm doing a lousy job of explaining this, but it's a very difficult thing to explain. Well. What I'm hearing is in African culture, what mine is yours and what's yours is mine becomes a definition of how good of friends we are. So whereas in America it's like, I might lie. Are you using me? In America this is a negative thing. Yes, is you. You're asking me for some all you only want to be my friends so that you can take from me. That's that's my hackles do. When somebody goes, Hey, I need give me my I immediately go, I'm being used. In Africa, that's not that's not the case. They don't go I'm being used, they go this person wants to be my friend. HMM. So so I'm talking like that, and even like humor. humors are good example humor, and Africa's very literal. Okay, so I recall, like I was in a place with the TV and there was a couple of African stations, and so I think, James, you might have been there for this. Actually, I think we talked about this. We were sitting there watching this comedy program and, by the way, humor is almost exclusively cultural. Didn't realize that either until I went to Africa, but it's almost exclusively cultural, except for fart jokes. I'm sure they don't care. Oh No, Fart sir, they're not funny whatever. Yeah, okay, if they are, then maybe different people than I was with. So give us. What's their humor like? So I was watching this TV show and the people I were with thought it was hysterical. Guys, two guys, setting up on screen and they're really talking about nothing. And what they're doing while they're sitting there talking about nothing is grabbing, in this giant box they have next to them, different funny hats and putting them on. And every time they put on a new hat, the people with me be like that's the funniest grab others, that's the and they're looking around going like it. So it's literal humor. That's a good way to describe it. Is Is it's I'm trying to demean because because it is, it is what it is. Yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not less or better, it's right. It is what it is, just the same way they. We view our humor, just like, oh, that's not funny, it's not funny too right. Yeah, it's fine, you know, and a big part of this language. Word play is a big thing. What we do in the West as we do word play with English. Now Puns, you need to tell a dad joke. That's that's my speed, exactly that. Jokes are my jm so things are a little alien, humors different. So yes, there's big differences and I guess I miss what you were actually doing over there. What was your purpose for Africa? I was doing I call it micro financing because it's easier. People understand that a little bit better. But I went with like this back of donors who were trying to end the pot poverty cycle in kind in...

Africa. So poverty cycle, for anybody's not familiar, is basically somebody is a subsistence farmer. So they go out and they plant in their backyard and then they grow their corn and then they eat it and then they repeat next year. You go and do it again or forage. It's a big part as well. These giant mango trees to tons of food in Africa. It's in CR doubly fertile. HMM. Not Say Africa it's a continent. In Zambia, say, is incredibly fertiles, right next to the equator. Yeah, most people would think of Africa's having a Corncopia of food. It's everywhere I'm in. They do, they do. You Know Congo? If you seen enough movies then you do. But it's not like Egypt. Heat does not much food in Egypt. HMM. Mostly that's what you know. Africa's giant. It's a huge continent. So saying Africa's like saying Oh, in the United States, that reigns a lot. Kind of IT brings a lot in Florida, doesn't ring much in California or Nevada. What was I talking about? Well, I'm curious. Was this before you became a recording artist? Yes, so what kind of impact did that have on your journey to becoming a Christian artist? I don't know about Christian artist, but becoming an artist, okay, instrumental. If I had not done Africa, I would have not done music, or I would have quit really quickly, is a better way to say it. HMM. I'll tell you why. Is because music, as as a vocation, as a means of living, is two main things. It's one, how well you create, I'm going to do the other thingures and that one, that's it's one how well you create, and then too, it is how well you can take failure. And so this thing I was trying to do in Africa was a smashing, one hundred percent through the floor failure. Absolutely tanked, and mostly because I made it tank. HMM. Do you know what I was doing? Finances are view differently in Africa, like finances are sort of a western thing, and so, you know, most of it just got lit on fire, the things I was trying to do to help in this poverty cycle. Figuratively, let on fire, not I'm imagining you waking up in the morning. All the money is in a fire and they're just dancing and laughing. Yeah, not quite that. It's okay, okay, okay, but you've got the right picture, the figurative picture. So so it was the first time in my life where I had a failure, a giant failure, that I could not blame on someone else. I couldn't go yeah, I failed this, but you know, I try to play college basketball for a couple of years and and that was a big failure and it was a hundred percent on me, but it was easy to go in my own brain. Wasn't really me. Was a coach. He got fired right after I left. That guy was terrible. He screwed me up. I would have been incredible if it weren't for so Africa happened and there was nobody else to brain. I couldn't go like this person is the one who holding the bag. I was holding the bag. MMM. So this is what I say about Africa is up. I went to be good for Africa. It's one of the only times God's told me to do something specifically, only one of two times really in my life we told me to do something specific and I went because I want this is a great idea. I'm going to help change the continent, this is really going to help people a ton. And it did not. I did not help Africa at all, but Africa instrumentally helped me. The best thing that ever happened to me. And that being said, it was the worst year of my life. I hated it. It's awful. Every second or moments of joy, mostly when somebody would come and visit me, like James or my sister came. We had some other friends that came. They came the same time as you. Yeah, I think so, to moments of joy. Connection with the father was was really great right, because when you feel like you need them, which we don't usually in the west, but when you feel like you need them because you are by yourself, the commune with Jesus is really heavy, which was really good. But the lesson of learning how to fail is the reason I do music now, because music is is is directly related to how well you can hear somebody say you stink. What I do is I make this thing, and especially early on in my career, I make this thing, it's a song, it's an album, and then I hand it to somebody and go listen to this, and internally...

I'm going this is me giving myself to someone else. And then that person listens to it and most of the time they go may right, you get way more nose than you get. Yes, whatever it is, I'm handed to a radio station, you should play this. That's not very good. Hand in it to a management company. Hey, you guys should do something with me. It's not very good. Just it's mostly you stink. That's mostly what you hear, constantly chipping away at your pride, your ego, yeah, you're failing. You are, you're failing over and over again and you're it's being reinforced by other people. So for me, I'm like naturally, very sensitive to success failure, and I think most people are, probably, I don't know, I haven't haven't thought about that a ton, but I am very sensitive to success failure, and so learning how to be okay with a stamp of failure is what I learned in Africa and if I did not have that, I would quit very early in music, because that is what music is. is is learning how to deal with failure, and I don't care who you are, all the way up the food chain of artists, that is the case. Some people just naturally are okay with it, the ones that I know that are. It's people that just don't care, and I and I people probably would think that I don't be like, I probably doesn't care. I. You have that look. I know, yeah, you look Chi I. I don't know. Yeah, you look very chill back like that blows my mind and I feel like anybody listening to this, it's shocking because when you think of musician and you think of you know, a recording artist that you know does well I mean millions of views and you're on Youtube, you're on spotify, you're on at like you're everywhere, you're going on tour. They think of success and they think of how do they handle the success and all of the fame and the glory? They don't think of how are they handling failure? Like no one is thinking about how, you know, how is Justin beever handling failure? Now they think of how's he handling success? And then you see that in the news of like too much success makes the person you know go crazy with all the Paparazzi and like Britney spears, stuff like that. So it's just like like baffling to me that you're not over here saying I had to figure out how to handle the success. It's no, I had to figure out how to handle failure after failure after failure and and constantly like chipping a way. But then you have this like diamond at the end of it. You know, this this thing that you can be proud of that US as listeners get to hear and they get to listen to. Yeah, and I'm I listen. I'm not in the same scale as Beiever. Right, it was a whole different thing. Okay, look, so I think. Don't try to hample yourself that I put you above beever. Thanks Dad. I Um, I think. I think that handling success is incredibly difficult. I think the entire book of James That's all they're talking about, is how to deal with success. Right, so I think that is the ultimate trial that that is not the way that I view the world, and especially when it comes to music as a vocation. And I haven't ever, I don't know Bieber, so I don't know if, like, if that was his experience. He started really early and he has had a ton of a success. So from my perspective, I would agree with you. would be like, Oh, no, he's the other in the spectrum. We probably doesn't deal with failure. But I I'm sure people would view you the same way. If they didn't know, probably they weren't sitting here listening to young, marry Christian. Yeah, now, okay, going from failure that I'm not I'm not trying to make a complete bridge here, but how is your experience on the voice speaking of failure? Thanks a lot of that. Thanks a lot. No, I because I think it's cool, like I think it's cool that you were on a television show that if you talked to ninety five percent of Americans and you say the voice, they know what the voice is. Yeah, maybe they don't watch it religiously, but we all know what the voice is like. How was that? It was awesome. Yeah, that actually doesn't feel like a failure. No, no, it's not. It's because there was like a I won the season two for anybody doesn't know, you can look it up. Don't look it up. I got kicked out really quickly. I was I was I was believing. I was like, the Internet has got this all wrong. What thank it. I should have just let it ride. Now. I was really fun. You know, it's like a it was like a kids camp, right, like a kids camp, except for there was no kids. It was just the adult coaches. Right, okay, they lock you in a hotel for like a month and there's like two hundred people in there that are all very similar. The voice is like. It's mostly like aspiring artists and people who have careers, but it's some sort of you know, you're at some sort of low, intermediate level of your career, trying to make it at work, that sort of thing, and at that point? Where were you and your career? I'd put out one really...

...terrible record in college, self titled David Donne. Now this one was called Iesore, eye space sore, really gross. Well, I don't even think that's on spotify. No, I have removed that one from everywhere. It's like Disney song in the south. You don't want anyone saying it. Are here in it. Yes, exact. Okay, so you'd release that, I swore. Uh Huh. I released eyesore and it was it was the first thing ever did. I did it because I had a friend who who I senti met through James, who was trying to do it like he was doing a recording engineering degree and his senior project he had to record someone, and so I was writing songs and playing them. I was in Lubbock, Texas at the time and and I called him. I was like, Hey, some songs will be running you should record for me. We should do the other and he is actually an incredible engineer and producer. He's a guy still work with occasionally to this day, and so he made a record that sounded in ten times better than I was an artist at the time, but they still were the songs I was writing. And so you can only a Polish a Turd so much, right, but it was like people like are like. I think that's still a turn right. So that's how I feel about that project. You're scratching his bag, he was scratching your bag. It sounds to me like an African friendship. Yep, yeah, I don't know. Sorry. Okay, so you have that. I did that one and then I put out an actual decent record. David done sometimes, I think so. David an EP EP, I think that was called. Yeah, you hadn't released your Christmas album yet. No Christmas record happened after the third project. Okay, yeah, so you had some good music out there. You're going on the show. I just I put out five songs that were actually good and and I had a bunch of sweet friends who bought it, both of those records. That's really kind of the thing that got me started. So I had a bunch of friends that were like, Oh, this is so great because they liked me and my sweet and so the voice reached out and I went on the show and got kicked off. dealed. You're there. You weren't there the end. I was there and then I wasn't any any tips for said I was attractive. That's a win. I say, what's your number? ha ha ha. I didn't. I should have. You thought it, though. I did think there's so many men out there. They are thinking things that they probably should have said. There's probably the men that say things that they should have just thought. HMM. What would be your one piece of advice for any listeners that maybe want to go out for something like the voice or American idol or some kind of singing competition? Yeah, have fun, don't take too serious. I feel like I feel like people, especially like this is my life and I'm gonna I'm going to do the singing show and that's how I'm going to make it happen. Don't be so don't don't do this so serious like. It's really a good time if you allow yourself to have a good time. It was two kinds of people on that show. Right there was like the people who treated it like a kids camp, and then it was people that were like this is a competition, that's my competition, people, and so they go and lock themselves and in their hotel room. There was a bunch of people that like popped up after I was like, I saw that person who was that like that, but then so I you know, I don't maybe they were just introverted, but I think a lot of stress went into it. That was needless, because people were they were less interested in enjoying the experience and more interested in whatever else you would do. I don't even know well and I feel like, though, that that's even you in the Christian music realm, because a lot of Christian artists are I don't want to say that you're not a serious Christian artist. You're not like a tenation's dee, you know, in the Christian world, a weird out of the Christian music history. Yet exactly? Yet? Oh, that's coming up next. Ladies and Jacker, oh my gosh, I would listen to every song on he paid predestination. That's a tenacious D joke. I love that. Yes, I think the tribute was actually a song about one of Yoursel Yeah, and me and Jack Yeah Black wrote it together. I love that. But what I was going to say is that in your world and in the Christian music industry, like you are kind of more laidback, more chill, and I feel like a lot of Christian artists like when you come to their show and you see them, it feels like a very serious experience where they are. They have this formula. It's almost like manifest the spirit, whether or not you know it's happening or not, and you don't do that at your show. No, a big portion of what I tried to do is I'm actively trying to be myself, even on social media, the difficult thing to do, especially when in the age of branding. MMM like this is how I want to...

...brand my stuff. I think about that occasionally, been on very often. I'm really I'm trying to be me with what I with what I make musically and and who I am on stage. I think that really is an issue. I don't know if it's an issue for participants, for cons air goers, but it is for artists, and I think a big portion the reason is that authenticity when it comes to Jesus is coming into question. There's sort of this wave of artists who who are following this blueprint of how to do things right. You you put out these songs that fit in this mold and then you do these concerts that fit this way and the concerts that fit this way. A lot of the Times it ends up being sort of like a spiritual drug dealing event to where you go and I have to make these people feel like God is present, and so this is the this is the way to do that. We're going to do lights. This way we could have these moments where people can be intimate. We're going to try and create this experience. There's nothing wrong with that. Don't get me wrong. I'm not like saying, oh, everybody should stopped doing that. No, no, because when I go and see like an elevation or a hill song or a passion, that is almost my expectation. It is your expectation. I'm not going. Is What people want? Yeah, is what people want. Hard power for artists is is that? What it ends up becoming? Is A fabrication. Is I'm fabricating these things to try and stir these emotions. Over and over again, I'm continually fabricating that the Holy Spirit is here, and sometimes he is and sometimes he isn't, and and me, as the person who's standing up on stage, I'm trying to make this happen because that's how you sell tickets or that's what people need. That's people want. This tons a different mototype. Motivations. And what it happens with the artist is is that, if that's the case, if you're fabricating, a lot of times Jesus becomes less real to you. MMM, because then you get in the zone of I'm just fabricating. Is this real? Is Jesus even real? Sort of a downward spiral. So I have a decent number of friends who, like, are pretty forefront in the Christian music industry. That the Christian music industry sort of leads them to go, I don't know if this stuff is real. HMM, this is what I do and so I'm going to keep doing it, or sometimes not, and and I don't know what to do with that. That's that is an easy path to jump on. Is is you know, I'm going to I'm going to make this stuff happen, I'm going to make these people feel and then you do that over and word over again and you go what's real like? What is the Holy Spirit actually moved? Is He? Is He really or is it just me being a spirit for drug dealer? Am I doing this or is Jesus doing this? Feels like I'm doing it because I know that this is the equation to make people feel like Jesus is present. Right. So if that's the equation and I don't do the equation and people don't show up anymore, that maybe Jesus is not here, right. It's that that's an easy place to go and it happens way more often than you would think, and I think that that almost becomes what defines Christian music as a genre, because you look at other music genres and it's always based on how the music sounds. You know, jazz, it sounds like jazz. Rock and roll, it sounds like rock and roll. Christian music you have everything from David Done to David crowder to under oath, and that's all labeled as Christian. Yeah, and yet very different, and I think it's because that genre of music there is that expectancy to you know, the audience needs to be brought into this special place and man, if there was a way to fix that for the artist, that would be amazing. But I don't see that ever changing, where the audience is coming in to a Jesus culture performance and not expecting that, you know, if Jesus cultures came out out, and I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting now, and I don't think there's anything wrong with fabricating. I'm just I'm just talking about where things go easily with artists. So I'm not calling for a change out. This needs to stop because this is everybody's just faking it. I don't right. I don't believe that to be true. I don't believe that to be true. I just think that this is an easy place to go mentally as an artist when your job in your own mind is to fabricate. That's that's just I'm not like, I'm not like flipping a whip here to start slapping people stopping it such a fake art. Yeah,...

...no, no, I'm not doing that. Yeah, and I'm not hearing that. And I don't know, maybe the answer is like, I don't know, counselors for if you're leading people into worship on a day and a day out basis, you know, because I feel like those people maybe we need to be praying for them now. Are I know that you have done collaborations, maybe not with some of the names that I mentioned, but you've done collaborations for some of your songs. You've had Aaron Cole and who was the other guy? That the other rapper? Oh, manny man. Any rays. I love collaborations. I think I grew up in the generation of like you'd hear a rap song and then the next month it's remixed and tea pains in there. You know whatever. I love just always the remix. The remix is always better than the original. Have you thought of other collaborations? Maybe not remixes, but anybody out there that you love to Collab with? It is yeah, tons, it is. I think it's just the nature of the Christian Music Industry, at the business part. Like what is going on with this Christian music industry? Why choose that over what seemed to be like an easier route for you with your family business? Yeah, so, so choosing, choosing music over that, because you know, music, was still pretty far fetched. It's far fext for anybody who chooses that. The reason that I picked it over engineering was because in my mind I went this is an engineering the thing I can do whenever and this is I've got a little bit of heat from what I've done with music and and this is probably my only chance to give this a shot, and so I I beg the Lord to tell me honestly. I was like, God, you need to tell me, you need to give me a burning Bush or a wet fleece and tell me that I'm supposed to be a musician. I'm guessing engineer. I'm guessing you didn't get both. I didn't get anything. Really didn't get anything, and so it really just came down to like them both. This is a thing that I can do probably any time, and music is the thing that I probably this is my only real chance. I'm going to do this for a bat and see if it works, and even when I'm at James Way early I was continually setting milestones of like, if this doesn't happen in this period of time, this much momentum that I need to go, I'm still moving the right direction, that I'm going to quit. I love that and I probably did fifteen of those. I still are you hitting those miles? Sounds yeah, I hit them all. That's awesome. They were small. It wasn't like I need to be Justin Bieber. It was always like a I need to be able to book then play this many shows and I need to figure out how to get this many people to to look at this thing. I just at least not even buy it. I just need to make sure that people are seeing if I can make sure people are seeing it, that this mini this tangible Mani, then okay, then maybe this is a thing that I can do. Okay, that sort of thing. So it was just like I'll go into music. If music doesn't work out, then you always have a backup plan. But music was if I do anymore right, I think I might be unhireable. At this point, I've got a full sleeve tattoo and dreads. MMM, I can cut the dreads, but this, this isn't wash off for a well, and I also need a calculator to do very simple math. Okay, so well, music it is. Yeah, and you know, just like our past guest Jaron, I feel like when I see your content, when I hear your music, it just blows my mind. And for any of our listeners who are still listening to somebody that maybe they don't know. If you haven't heard David's music, like check it out. It's phenomenal because in the Christian world, like you were saying earlier, it does tend to follow a certain pattern, and so myself, as a Christian who wants to always look for that artist that's a little different, maybe has music that you're not anticipating from a Christian artist. When I like started diving into your music, it was a breath of fresh air. It was like such a relief. Yeah, and I mean you're putting out such good content and it just blows my mind. I'm like, this guy should have like ten times listenership or you know whatever. Why am I not hearing this guy on the radio more? But maybe that's more of my problem than well, I don't know, it's probably a better both of virus. Yeah, we're both take equal responsibility. Maybe, maybe this podcast episode will be the thing that just resurrects that. I don't know. Your career is not sad. It doesn't need to be resurrected. Resurrect my career. Thanks Eve though, bring you from the ashes, from the pits of Ghana, back into Jerusalem. Okay, so we talked a lot about you in the music world, but who is David Done?...

Off of the song, off of the stage, outside of the music world? I talked about this a tiny better there, but I'm actively like putting effort into trying to be the same. You know, a big part of this world is branding. HMM, it's like what is my brand tell people and and probably to the detriment of my career, I have actively tried to not do that. I'm not trying to brand. I still do to a certain extent. You can't get away from that. But a big part of my brand is this is me, this is how I am, and not the great a showman song. Oh, this is me. Got It. I thought you were saying you're not the greatest showman. Right now about to tell you you were number one. That's a finer joke. Yeah, so, like, who is David Donaf off off of social media and music? I think I'm the same, but I'm a bad person to ask. HMM, because I'm trying to be me and I'm not sure how successful I am at it. If you ask my team, like we're manager or label booking agents, they would be able to answer more correctly than I can. Okay, what you got chance from my perspective. So you are two very different you are extremely intelligent and very thoughtful and my music is not extremely held up. A lot of your social media I see a lot of fun goofy Dave saying you look like an idiot on social media. So there's, to my experience, of you off camera is funny, goofy making jokes, Huh, but also very, very thoughtful and very you just very strong points of you. HMM. Yeah, yeah, and I think, I think a big portion of the reason that is, if I was gonna wigh in here, I think a big portion of the reason that that is why I don't necessarily do it on social media is because you also won't hear me monologging, which is what social media is. When I have conversations about things that are intellectual or semi intellectual, it's always because there's another individual involved. So so I'm not a I'm not a pastor, not a preacher. I'm terrible at it. I'm I like, I can't think my way through anything when I'm monologging, when I'm talking to somebody. That ends up happening in social media is a monolog platform, is what I would say. That would be my my I don't know defense, but that's I would go. I think that's probably why is I also don't monolog and social media is monolog yeah, I vistle. I try to start one for like a hot minute. I did one episode and then give up. What I was going to do is get a bunch of my music friends and like bring them in and then we talk about whatever and then we'd play one of their songs together. and Mark Shields came in and then it was like six months of me being like hey, buddy, you coming over tonight to do the thing, and then the dude who's coming over be like can't come, typical musician fashion, HMM, and I was like, all right, this is gonna Happen, man, I was gonna. I'm glad we're doing it here. Is Great. Yeah, now they though in the non flaky ones, we can just have them come here and we'll make it happen and we'll just always have you on deck to come in and do a music collab with them and then we'll get the album going. Circle of life. Yeah, that would be pretty incredible fun. Yeah, I knew that you were a very intelligent dude when, like every twenty word you would say while we were hanging out, I would you probably thought, what's this guy doing on his phone? All the time I was looking up the words you were saying. I was like, this guy, I don't feel like I have that crazy of a volcabulary. Well, maybe you're just making up sound. The sounds you were saying like it's just trying to be extra impressive. Yeah, maybe you're just reading signs that he saw and I was like wow, where that word come from? Or maybe you're speaking African and I was like, oh, totally don't know. It happen. Okay, let's go into somebody who, I think, side note, African is not a language. Swahili. Why these language? They speak most mostly Bemba, Bemba, Bemba in in Zambia. That makes me think of the bread Bimbo. Yep, yeah, okay, moving on. You were talking...

...about how, and I get it. Like asking you the question, who are you? It's hard to define yourself. It's probably easier to ask the people close to you. I would say, one of those people being lean, your wife, that's if. Yeah, so, if she was here, do you think that she could speak on that? Um? I think. I think, yeah, I think she could. Okay, let's bring her in right now. Here we go, lean now. I'm just kidding. If she is, she looks just like James. Don't do that flattery, though. Gosh, what just happened? We cannot take Jay's in pubblic talking it to her. Was Lean in your life when you release the song? Not Soon? No, no, she was not. Where was lean when that song was being written? I was dating a girl. I was dating a girl. What is your girlfriend think of this song? I don't think I've ever had a girlfriend that was real thrilled about it. So it's not soon. Is basically a song. For people haven't heard it. It's basically a song of me declaring that getting married is a thing. That sounds like a good deal, but I'm probably not going to do it anytime in the near future. A big portion of the reason it's because I got five brothers and sisters and all of them got married pretty young and started pumping out children Mary fast, and so my parents were very nicely pushy, especially when I was younger, about like time to do it. And so I think a part, a part of that song, was Christian society. Right. A big portion of Christian society is you know, you graduate from college and then you get married or get married as fast as you can. You should get married real quick. So was it a rebellion against that stigma or was it a rebellion against you see all these kids and you see the havoc there? Then the chaos they're creating and you're like it was less that, because I think at that point in my life I had I had less friends who had got married early, with marriages that failed. Right, I do have songs about that, but this is not one of them. This was like, this is like early me. All of my friends are getting married and me going what, right, don't like really fast and now this is your life forever. So what was your initial question? So I was just explaining the song and I lost much at add and here we are. I was just wondering where lean was in that song, but it sounds like she was probably off live in her own life. I'll connect it to leane. Had you known lane at that point? No, no, no, there's way before my wife. I will say this is me and lean dated for a really long time. Okay, for the same, probably fundamental reason that I wrote the song, and the fundamental reason I wrote the song is is that I have a natural adversity to accepting responsibility. HMM, for most of my life I have gone way out of my way to make sure that I am not solely responsible for stuff, and I know that sounds weird because we talked about Africa I don't want other things. Yeah, glore drug me to Africa kind of because why? I was being drugs for the same reasons, because I'm adverse to responsibility where you like kicking and screaming on the plane going over there, basically, and then you got there you're like, all right, I'm here, and then I kicked and screen the whole time I was there too. Wow, interesting. Now really am being I'm being Melo dramatic. Yeah, for sure, but we date it for a really long time. For the same reason is that, like I was in the zone of like this is great, like this is fun, this is awesome, I'm enjoying this. I'd like my own space. I'm own toothbrush. You got your own toothbrush. We like when it's convenient hang out, which was all the time. But why would we like? We go the next place and this is gone and there's a new thing and the new thing requires me to like pay for your stuff and you pay for mine, and we're going to mix all that. Like there's all of these question marks. Of Now we're making decisions on behalf of each other. Well, that sounds awful. I want something to make a decision on behalf of me. I want to make my own decisions right. So it's same ball park as the song is. Is Why me and my wife dated five years, four and a half before we got married. By the way, we got married, engaged and married in like two months, after four and half years. Oh so it was like engagement straight into marriage. And I got to know. Was the Hashtag for the engagement lean with it? Rock with it? When you put the Rock on lane? No, or was it done and done? This is PG thirteen. So you might have toide to this out, but good, and my phone my wife's name is now. That's too much, but I'm gonna...

...tell you now. We want to know this. Okay, her name is lean, the girl who's been done. Do you and him as a free I was. I'm glad it's that and not a lean piece of meat. My need to change it and I am so sorry, lean. Oh my gosh, no, don't change it now, but it was quick. That's actually a fun story. Would you like to hear it? Wait, how you guys met? Now? How we got married? Oh, how you got married? Yeah, it's four and a half years and for actually like for it's change and we're sitting on the back porch of my house. It's like ten o'clock in the morning and she'd come over and we're sitting on the back porch and in the course of US talking, she sort of goes hey, is just going anywhere and I said I said yeah, yeah, well, we're gonna get married someday, and she goes, oh, we're like when? I need to have some sort of time scale and I was like okay. So I opened up my phone, I looked at my calendar and the only real hole I had from more than like two weeks was in like two months because of touring, because a touring, and so I was like, well, what if we got married in like two months? And she's like yeah, that works, HMM, and I go well, do you know when you would get married? She's from Ireland. She goes, I want to get married back in Ireland, and I was like okay, and Ireland. We got married in Northern Ireland. That's amazing, and then she goes it is. I've got a video. Actually, you see it. You guys won't see it, but I'll let you see it. Okay, cool, it's really great. It's awesome. The listeners again really jealous and I love it, suckers. I'll just hold my phone up and you can take that. See You, and she's like okay, and then we sat to her about ten seconds and I go well, I guess we're engaged and she goes yeah, and I go do you want to ring or yeah, yeah, I want ring, and I was like, well, do you know a kind or anything like, do you know anything? And she goes yeah, I want this one, and like she had it on our phone ready. Yeah, it was her bet is her background. Now she's like pulled it out, okay, tight it and pulled it up. I want this one. I was like all right, like poor girl has it on her background of her phone. Well, well then, you like, all right, here, I'll hand you my credit card and you can use buy it, and so she's like all right. So she buys it and then we sit there for a couple minutes more. Yeah, wait for it, I get it all wrong. You get to even make gets worse, are better, depending on your perspective. Okay, so she goes out and buys the ring. She bought on the Internet, like you don't have to do to buy it. She like newer ring size. So you literally put it in it's going to come in and like four weeks or something like that. Okay, yeah, because going in person that's kind of humiliating. Hey, I'm here to buy my engagement right. Yeah, now Internet. She she doesn't have the ring yet, but she has ordered it. And then we sit there for a couple more minutes and I go like I call my call my mom, and so I call my mom and then I tell her and she gets my older sister on the phone. We got five siblings, so older sister, mom on the phone, the like. Tell us the story when we're to hear the story. How did you do it? And I was like, well, I was sitting on the back porch and it just came up in conversation and we picked a date and they go what, what do you mean? You didn't make it like a special thing, and I was like really, like, that's not really what we do, and they were like you have to sho would like you don't want to tell that story for the rest of your life, and I was like no, that's that's a fine story for me to tell for the rest of my life, and here you are telling it. Yeah, and so they guilt trip me into and I got trip. That's too much. They talk me into making a thing of it. So I was like all right, so I went to Walmart. You should have just that would make it a place, to make it romantic. I went to Walmart, MMM, and yeah, exactly, and I bought like like a twenty five dollar giant fake diamond old man ring had like fifty dimes on it, and I bought that. And I have a buddy who's a videographer. It's Nashville stones of them, and and I was like hey, he's what I think we're going to do. We're going to go out to this abandoned airfield which is kind of connected to a park that we always went to, and I want you to fly this ring in on the drone and that's how we're going to get her. That's cool. And so I'd tell Lene. I'm like a couple days later I'm like, Hey, been, my friend been needs some like B roll stock footage to sell to people for commercials, and he needs you and me to like go out and write on the skateboard around this airfield, and she's like no, not doing it. I was like why not? She goes, because I don't like God, I don't want to do that and like a fifteen minutes...

...later I'm like, I promise you'll enjoy it. I'll give you a hundred dollars if you hate it, and she's like hunterbucks, all right, you're trying to twist her arm because you know, and I she's also making a feel. She knows that even if she enjoys the just be like that was stupid and I have to give her under but so we go to the air field and we're like riding around on the skateboard and he's flying the drone all over the place and there's a video that. There is a really great video so of him filming with the drone and then I like secondarily asked her to marry me and like a proper rom calm sort of way. That's a good video. That's precious. So that's how we fake got engaged after we unromantically got gaged on my back Porsche. Okay, I feel like you gave some women some bad ideas to just anything their husband or fiance or boyfriend wants them to do. They just say, you know, if you give me a hundred dollars, if I don't like it, I'll do it, and then they just always say adn't like that. Listen. Great Advice, for I am an enabler. So if you were listening and you need to be enabled, you're welcome. Okay. So, to kind of get on your vocabulary level, I'm going to use the word courtship. What did you feel like you did well in your courtship with Len and what do you feel like maybe you should have done a little differently looking back? Um, I mean it's complicated because people look different. MMM, and especially with me and my wife, we tend to everything is sort of light and and every opportunity is an opportunity to have a good time. And so I think until we were forced, and this is very much if anybody visits to any Agram, I'm an anyagram seven and my wife is a two. Same, your wife's a too. Are Your fearance. I don't have a wife fiance, and fiance's the three, but I'm a seven. She's the three, three and seven, three and seven. With the CEO man, we make a perfect ten. You're ready to have kids, Dad, joking, Oshima. Oh, what we did as as a dating couple? Yeah, I think the main thing that I'd probably do more of is is be intentional about working through each other's baggage. MMM, because dating, is this any all the stuff you see on TV is bs all, especially the garbage TV shows, the bachelor. The Bachelor is the worst thing to happen to how people view relationships ever. That being said, delightful to watch hot garbage it is. I love garbage TV, and the whole time I'm watching them going this is the worst thing I've ever seen. All right, we're going to watch one more. That is how I watched garbage TV. But it is absolute crap and it's and it's portraying love and the most negative way ever. Oh yeah, and so what I would say is this is that baggage. I'm sorry. Dating is, it's coming to back. It not synonyms. Dating is should be anyone who's dating. It should be an evaluation process for the both of you to figure out what your other person's baggage is and deciding whether or not you're willing to carry it for the rest of your life. Hmm, let's tee. That's all dating should be. You and me are dating Devo. First off, the weird, but second off we decide what each other's baggage is. HMM, and then we decide if we're willing to carry it for the rest of our lives. So what does a conversation like that not necessarily look like, but like, how do you jump into that with your significant other? I mean, are you sitting down knees to knees now, looking into each other's eyes? I mean apart sometimes, Hey, what's your baggage? Yeah, the heart thing about baggage is that usually people don't realize what their baggage is. Oh, a hundred percent and it. But, and I feel like if you call them out on it, hey, babe, here's some of your baggage, they don't like that. No, no, with us, I think. I think a big portion of it was me making sure that my wife was looking at my baggage. I think that was a piece of it. Is I would I wish that I would have done more to let my wife see my baggage. MMM, which you know, it's a whole lot easier to evaluate other people than yourselves. Yeah, what, what kind of baggage are we talking here? Up, I mean a big portion of it is that I am incredibly self centered. Hmm Right, you can tell that from most of the things I've been talking about today, I've very highly prized my own fill in the blank. Yeah, this whole interviews about...

...you exactly. I got it. So for my wife, can I can I ask you? And being self centered not just like putting that label on you or anything, but like I also struggle with that in some ways. Is there ever a time when you're in a room and if you feel like somebody else is maybe more talented you, maybe funnier than you, and you just like have jealousy towards that person and it almost shuts you down? Really, you're okay. was sharing the spotlight. Yeah, a big part of the way that I'm self centered, and I think it's probably, if we're talking about like socially especially, a big part of the reason that, the way that I am self centered is I enjoy things more when everyone is doing them. So a big part of what I'm trying to do is go, let's all do this, and I'm going to shepherd it and be at the head if I need to. But if James is popping, I've no problem being like just so it's because that's what I want right, that's what I enjoy the most. You want people to be participators. I do not I don't like to Monolog I don't want people to listen to me talk. I don't like to lit I don't like to talk for no reason. What I want to do is enjoy everything, and the way that I enjoy things the most is if everybody's popping off and having a good time. If you're having people over to a barbecue and you've got like game set up, Cornhole, all kinds of things and there's like people that aren't participating in like the activities you've set up, is that bother you? No, not at all. You're cool with them just I'm cool with them doing it, but on my radar they don't exist. I know that's so harsh, but they don't exist on my radar. If they're not choosing to participate, I forget that they're there. So so I'm not I'm not trying to make people participate. I'm trying to I'm trying to negotiate the participators so that we can have the best time doing whatever it is together. Makes Sense. I want to talk about this real quick first, because you brought something up. Yeah, this is a this is a tangent, this is a theory. I'm working on that. I believe to be true. I think controversial here it comes. I like it. I think that humans do not have the capacity to do anything but be selfish. We can do nothing but be selfish. I'll explain before you freak out. We can either do things selfishly our own way, or we can do selfishly things God's way, and that's all we get. The entire Bible is a giant book of reasons why we should choose God over us. Now, the best example to give to this is the parable of the servant at the table. If you want to be at the head seat in the table, what should you do? According the Bible, you should serve people. Right. If you want to be first, put yourself last a hundred percent. And it's taken for granted that everybody wants to be first. And I think that's the entire book of the Bible. It's going. You can either do things your own way, selfishly because you think it's best for you, or you can do your your your you can do things selfishly God's way because it's best for you. Everyone does what's in their best interest. A heroin addict, as he's putting the needle in his arm, doesn't go. This is the worst. I don't know why I'm doing this. In the moment he has convinced himself this is the best thing for me right now, and regret, remorse, all that can come later, but in the moment that I do I have convinced myself this is the best thing for me, and that is what destruction looks like. Destruction looks like doing your own thing, your way, doing God's thing for you is the only other way to function. And now the rebuttal is I do things because I love God, and I reject that only because love is the most ambiguous term and the human language. All you got to do is watch the bachelor to realize that love no longer has meaning. is a thing that everybody says and thinks they understand and no one is saying the same thing. As a modating factor. I'm still a little foggy on this and whether or not this is true or not. So this is going to be live forever, so I'll probably forget this at some point. But love is a motivating factor. I don't currently believe to exist. Love is. Love is a thing that happens once you make a choice. You love because you are you don't love because you feel. HMM, love is a choice in an action. It's not a motivator. It is something that happens after you make the decision. So you can...

...either choose to do things God's way, which leads to life, you can choose to serve other people because it's best for you. Either when it doesn't feel like it, which it rarely ever does, when you serve people, in my experience, some people love it. My wife wants it, but serving people feels why would I do that? I want to sit at the front of the table. We'll set at the at the at the bottom. Why would I sit the bottom when to sit the front? Because that's God's way. So do you believe that God, your father, actually has your best interest in mind, that he wants the best for you or not? If you believe that he does, then serving other people is best for you and that's why you should do it. It's great for other people. Yes, you'll get fulfillment from it. Yes, you may never see why it's the best thing, but do you trust that it is? It's your way or God's way. You can do your way selfish or you can do God's way selfish. Those the only two options. I'm still working on a little bit. I'm not a hundred percent sure that I am all on board with it, but I think, I think, I believe it would be true. No, I mean that brings up so many questions and I know that, like, for me personally in my life I've had a lot of nonbelievers come to me and say, Debot, you're just a Christian because you know it. That equals heaven, and that makes you way worse of a person than any of us that don't believe, because you're literally trying to get the golden ticket, the Willy Wonka ticket, the past into heaven. And I mean, I've wrestled with all that stuff and I've come to a conclusion where I'm good, I'm fine. I mean because the whole morality thing, like, if you take away heaven as the reward, then you take God out of the equation and then you can't really have morality without God anyway. So it's like, I also don't believe that heaven is the reward. Right, I believe that I've lived. The reward is life. Are we bet to that includes heaven? Yeah, your Song Heaven, our kingdom is literally about that. Yeah, that is that he's exactly right is that life is found when you walk with Jesus, and you're going to do that a lot more in heaven, but this is the only chance you get to do it by faith. You get this eighty year period to walk with Jesus by faith and find life here and now. Jesus doesn't talk about heaven a ton. He does talk about it, but mostly when he speaks of the Kingdom of Heaven He's speaking about the earth. Yeah, he mostly talks about what's going to happen while you're here, not the hereafter. Now he does talk about the hereafter. I think it's important, but we make it a lot more important than Jesus did, because everybody concerned about what happens to us when we die. Jesus is concerned about that too, but he was mostly concerned with how we live, and I mean that in the physical term and in the metaphysical term, finding life and not choosing death. I've got a tattooed giant on my hip. You see that one? Having you? It's my favorite person the verse in the Bible. Deuteronomy, thirty nineteen. Look it up. That is the Bible in whole. In my opinion is that verse? Okay, wow, I think we started talking about you're sorry, that's a tangent. I think it just went off on a soap box. No, it's fine. I mean that's definitely stuff that, you know, I want to dive into. But all of this surprises me about you because, like you're just so like kind of an independent guy going through life not really needing this, you know, female attention. I started doing music because I was in a youth event and I had a bunch of girlfriends in youth group and some random dude got up on stage. You start playing the guitar and I was like this is all right, and I looked around at all my female friends and they were all going and that's when I knew the Lord was calling me to do music. It's like girls perspective, slow most drums. Your perspective, things are normal speed. You're so confused and then you're like this is a I know. Want to be that guy. Yeah, let them drool over me. I wonder how many guitarist, male guitarist, our guitarist. For that reason, I think it's a hundred percent and if it's anything less than I think we have some liars so true. But like my my thought when I heard your song second grade, which personally might be my favorite song of yours. Number One, as a Christian artist, you putting that on your record. That has like nothing to do with God. Loved that because I don't think Christian artists do that enough. Number two, it does well. I disagree with that, but okay, but not specifically. Keep going. Keep yeah, not as overthetop as like using the same I don't know. The Pastor Ferdic, was talking about like using the same thirty words for every Christian song and it was like none of those words were those thirty words, you know. Yeah, okay. Second reason being you literally go through your girlfriend saying grade. I literally had my girlfriend second grade pop up in my head. Your girlfriend when you're a teenager, my high school girlfriend possible in my head, and then you're talking about your girlfriend when you're in your S. I literally can relate to that because that's where I am right now, engage, and I'm going through this and I'm also reading wild at heart,...

...and when he talks about the whole like you're constantly man is constantly going after that golden hair, beauty, that and doing whatever for it. And like to me one of the biggest truths in that book was when he talked about how eve fell into temptation from the devil, but man fell into temptation from woman. And when you say, you know, if there's any man out there who's playing guitar and it's not because of a woman, it's a lie, like it makes so much sense, like we're all because of Adam, like we have that connection to woman where it's like I'm or always going to fall. Yeah, but and yeah, I don't know that. You and lane seemed very happy. Yeah, I don't feel like she's pulling you down anyway. No, no, I don't. I think she's absolutely lifting me up. That is not to say that it has not been really terrible at times. Yeah, what's the hardest part so far? Here's the thing is, we got married and then accidentally got pregnant immediately. Apparently I am very potent it. Thanks you wild that we got pregnant once, much less multiple times. And and marriage, marriage is especially for someone like me. It is a really intensive, uphill climb to learn how to serve when somebody else is your responsibility, and I say leans my responsibility, and and I was hers right. I think marriage is that way. And so and so, learning how to roommates is easy, right. You do roommates and you're doing your own thing and you're sharing a few things, but it's passive. Everybody sort of on the same page. It's not always easy, but it's easier. But marriage, it's now, I said this little bit earlier, it's now we're making decisions on behalf of each other. Our lives are now entertwine mind and that is painful. I think it's a little less painful if you don't already have your life the way you have it right, if you get married early, how will you got married twenty. That's pretty old to still not pretty old, but it's older. Do you get married when you're twenty two or twenty one, like my little brother did? You don't do life anyway. You've done college and you've done high school and then now you're doing life another place. So it's a little bit less of adjustment. But for a thirty something to get married, you very much have your thing the way that you have your thing right and you make decisions the way you make decisions and then you introduce somebody else who also has that and now you have to do it together. And there's this rub and it wasn't that big of a deal. We got married, but then we had a kid and that's like x because all of those things are highlighted in, you know, the most loud, annoying highlighter in the world and their full frontal just straight in your face. This is rhads. That was road. Yeah, my firstborn, and and that was your first. That was you got her pregnant and rose was the first baby. Roses first baby. Yeah, rose was first. Kind of. Yeah, wait, what do you mean kind of? Oh, well, we actually we actually got pregnant on the wedding night and on accident and I and my wife miscarried. So that's not super public, but sorry to bring that up. Miscarried and then and then Rhodes was a couple months later. Same sort of story, not the miscarry part, but are we talking about I forgotten. I was derailed. Now you're fine. Does that miscarriage? How much does that weigh on you and lane? Let's so on me and lean. I think. I think it was a lot heavier for Lane Zee me, I'm not carrying a child. It didn't feel real to me to be frank with you, even Rhodes didn't feel real until he came out. HMM. And when I'm holding him, my one holely crap, right, there's a difference. And and then really heavy paternal instincts didn't kick in for me until four or five months probably, when he stopped just being up sack of flesh that pooped and cried and eat, right when he realized that he existed and so did I. That was a it was like a light switch. I was pretty miserable up until then, which I feel like is such a good analogy for our relationship with God and the moment that we finally realize that he is there. I'm sure he probably has that same feeling, like, because you're probably like joy, like, oh my gosh, like my son recognizes me and he sees me. Yeah, it...

...was more like it was pretty prolonged misery. It was pretty prolonged misery. Where I was going. I've ruined my life. HMM, my if is over. This is my new existence and I hate it. So to kind of feel like four months of just having a Furbi with less hair. Yeah, she's all freedom gone. That's the biggest thing. It's not like technically what you do with a kid. Technically do with kids whatever. You just don't sleep that much. You clean the diapers, but I no longer my life no longer belonged to me, and it already didn't because my wife had a but that was like on a tiny scale. And then a kid comes along and now my entire world now revolves around this thing and I'm resentful of its existence. This too much. I'm getting too much. It's absolutely how I was. I'm resentful of this thing's existence, and then the moment he became a cognizant human being, to where he realized he existed, is when I went, oh, this is totally worth it, this is completely where I see why people keep doing this. I see why people keep doing this. HMM, so just God do that? I don't I've never thought about that. Maybe. Yeah, I mean it sounds like your advertisements went from cruise lining with lane to just Disney cruise line with the kids. It's probably I don't think I get that analogy. Maybe it's an Orlando thing. So now that you guys are married, it what's been the toughest aspect? Now, since you become married, it hasn't been the kids, or is it something different? Yes, to both of those. There there is no untangling. It's all one jar bold mess when you get married. So is it the kids? Yes, and it's other things, and all of those things are lumped together and they become issues and problems, because people have issues and problems. Me and lean have issues and problems. The main thing that that from my perspective. I'd love to know what my wife said about this. She'd probably get mad with half of the things I'm saying. Why did you say what she said about this, like this is the newly way game, like she was here. If she was here listening, I bet she would be like it was great. That's usually what she does. I love you, like yeah, yeah, it was great. The main thing for me, and this is a little bit it's another little departure, but the main thing for me that was difficult was I am highly sensitive to power plays. We talked about this yesterday. A tiny bit highly sensitive. It's the only thing on this planet that makes me see read is someone asserting authority over me that I have not conceited authority too. So, you know, not just an authority issue, it's when it's not conceited too. It's both right. But I've conceded authority to policeman and I'm still incredibly nervous every time I'm around a policeman, every time. I can't be driving and not get nervous, I can't walk up next to one. And it's not because I think they're bad people. It's because I'm aware that this person can ruin my life if they're having a bad day. HMM. This person has the power to do anything to me and I can't do anything about it. Not that they're going to do it, but I'm aware that that power structure exists and so they make me uncomfortable. So it's all authorities. I found anthority problem since I was dining, you can, as my parents, but with my wife. That became a really big deal for a section of time in our marriage and it's way more complicated than I'm about to make it. But there was there was inner workings of WHO's The boss and I want to not play that game adamantly my entire life. I'm a seven right any a Graham again game. I flee conflict. I A hundred percent flee if it starts to pop up. Somebody's playing power games. I just don't. I'm just going to be around that person. That's that's my Goto. But if we're going to play power games, if I have to play, then I'm going to fricking win them. HMM. If I'm going to play, I'm going to win. I'm not going to play unless I'm going to win. I'm going to and I'm going to go for the juggular every time. And so I can't run from my wife. And so we start kind of going the power game route and I exacerbated this terrible cycle of cats and dogs at each other's throats of who gets to decide. And what I want and what my wife wanted was for us to decide, which is not a power game. I want us to decide and and to agree, while while making concessions for each other like that's that's the way the Lord made us to function. Without Power Games, right or power plays is another way to say we're going to make concessions and serve each other. Power Games are the opposite of serving. It's Power Games are I'm more important than you, and so you will for me. That's what power games are. It's all about winning. It's all about winning.

It is, it is all about winning and and ego. Yeah, it sounds like politics honestly. You know. Yeah, we won't jump into that. But yes, was there any saying through going through roads and rocket and then going through this power struggle it, was there ever a time where you felt like this isn't going to work? No, no, it never came to that point. No, not even close. The breaking points for me were like semi depression. I hate my life. It never is popular in my brain that this, this is not going to be the thing. Divorce was never an option. No, I was just this is, this is this is my new existence. Was the low points. Divorce is not a no, it's no chance. Was Never gonna do that. The kid involved, I don't even know like it. It's never entered my mind that was going to happen. That's never been a thing. Yeah, yeah, so going back to what you said about politics, and I know I was I skipped over it, but it seems like there was something there. Yeah, do you have I think we can hold on that. We can always go back to the Internet conversation we had earlier. Okay, I think the two are related. When it comes to politics, I think that is like a more of a shining example of how people behave on the Internet. That it's the best example is that you click on a political post, really almost anything, and you look at the comment section. Nobody's concerned about finding truth, nobody's concerned about resolving an issue. Nobody cares. All people are interested in is winning or losing at the expense of anything that's there. They don't even really know if they're right or not. They just want to be on the right side. Yeah, and politics is that to the extreme right. We we saw on the Internet and in politicians that the only thing they're interested in. It's not interested in helping people and making the best form of government and doing the best thing with finances. If they're interested in making the spend happen and then winning whatever that is. Winning the next election, winning this argument, winning the PR battle, winning the the redefinition of a word. Winning and losing is all anybody's can wants to do, anymore, which is is that a power game? I don't know. There is also, yeah, probably, but it is at the detriment of everyone. When you just stop being concerned with winning and losing and things that aren't a win lose, there is no win lose, there is, there is truth and then there is not, there is there is help and then there is hurt and then there is a giant chasm of in between those two things, and so well politics. What I want to have happened is for us all to start if politicians would do this, I think would be incredibly helpful if they would just start by going we want the best. We want things to happen for people the best way. As a health care, we want health care to be the best it can be. Let's all start there. We want it to be the best we can be. We want to help, and then start there arguing. But they don't actually care about that. They don't care about health care being the best it can be. What they care about is winning. I want to win, I don't want to lose and I'll do anything I can to win. I don't care whether or not people actually have good health care. and that's exactly how humans are on the Internet. I don't know about real life because I try not to do huge political conversations irl same, but on the Internet that is how they are as well. They don't care about the issue. They just want to be make sure they're on the right side, make sure they're on the right team, make sure they have the viewpoint that is most correct and the end and and the Internet is also a place where social consequences don't happen. This is what the world looks like without consequences. Is the Internet, if he's the NASTIEST place on the planet because people can hide behind their keyboards and see whatever they want and then go not me. Well, I got to look somebody in the eye and tell them the worst thing that they've ever heard in their life. That's a really hard thing that you kind of have to be a terrible person to be able to do that. But behind a keyboard, no problem. I feel like two thousand and twenty, though, for the first time I did see consequences on the Internet, because people are blocking each other, people are unfriending each other, and it was like those our internet consequences. Well, I mean, I think it's not the real world, man, but I saw it go...

...into the workspace where people literally wouldn't have conversation. Is Yeah, it thinks over, it leaks over, which is like is it worth it? But you said like the term team, like we got to be on the right team, and I wonder if like maybe it's because bipartisan and it's it seems very much like a sport. Oh, I'm Patriots Fan, I'm Colts Fan and I'm wearing this jersey. You're wearing that Jersey and that, and I wonder if it just too Americans. Feels like another sport, like all right, every four years we get another Olympics, kind of like. I don't think I'm think most people have thought through enough to go this another sport or even realize what what's happening. I don't think people are intentionally doing this. I think it's natural to people to go win lose and and they've been prodded to be here. And so people are prodded to be win lose by whomever. Media as a good one. The more win lose we have a media, the more money they make, more clicks they have. Right. Yeah, is that we've been prodded into win lose and and it's to the detriment of everyone on the on in the United States, for sure, and I feel like that that is in a there is so much hate going on in that world and and that's why I don't even like to delve into that that much on this show, because I just like gives me the not, not a good feel. So what the Willie's? Yeah, so, like I want to get out of that very quickly and get into like something that feels like love. I want to try something with you. I don't know how on board you are with it. We have this camera here. It's looking right at you. I would like for you to look right into it and I want you to do I want to give you as much time as you need. Okay, and for our listeners that are females, maybe this is their chance to hear. Hey, this is how my man should feel about me, and for our guys, maybe they can hear this is how I should feel about my woe, or this how I should talk to her. I want you to act like this camera is lean and I want you to just let your heart flood out. You had no idea this was coming, no idea. Also, what I would do with my wife is look her in the eye like this, and then I would say something like this. You stunk up the bathroom, my sweetheart. How could you do such a thing? That would be the extent of my expression of love. My wife is actually a words person, so usually what I say to my wife is. You are incredible mother and you are doing an incredible job with our kids and with our house and I am super grateful and thankful for what you're doing. That made me so uncomfortable. It's the most uncomfortable I've ever been in an interview. At this moment, my heart puts a sweating. It makes me uncomfortable to say it to my wife. I noticed like this is not your wife, is a camera and you couldn't do it. You're a glance at a James. Your glance at at me because I was uncomfortable. My eyes little stingy. Why is that? Why? Because I get it too, like I can, I can say great things about my fiance in any way, except for to her face. That's hard. I mean I can do it, but man, like you said, sweaty pits and you just get clammy and you're like, why is that so uncomfortable for us to just sit down and because we feel it. It's uncomfortable for me to do it across the board to my wife, to not to my wife. It's a little more uncomfortable, I think, because I don't val you words as much I'm she does. My wife is very she's a value. She's a word valuer. Where's affirmation? There? It is words of affirmation, love languages. That's our yeah, a big portion of her love language, and so I make a make an effort to do it. But in the same breath I internally roll my eyes because words are wind. Movies that never idiator. Words are wind. I have seen gladiator, great movie. It's a wind that's like gladiator. I can remember it is. It has just always so interesting that I feel like any any couple. I talk to you. Your love language is one thing, her love language is something totally different. Yeah, you're really good at showing the way you like to be loved. She's really good at everything because she's a woman. And then it just makes sense as man look bad. Yeah, we're not good at words in general now, but there are. There are some guys. This one, James, is a huge words guy. Yeah, he's very good with it actually, actually, your wife is not. James Actually taught me a lot about the value of words, not because he sang them to me because I was thought it was weird and say it to me, but watching its effect when he talked to other people and said things that were wildly encouraging that I felt like we're really weird, he'd say. I would it be like well, what's and then I'd watch other people respond to being like holy crap, that was a that's a whole thing. HMM. So me, if I'd somebody asked...

...me to describe you, that is mostly what I would talk about. Is your ability, your ability to prop people up with your words pretty stounding. I am not great at that, but yet you have to be great that because you're a lyricist. You literally put words into music that takes people into a place of like Oh wow, I relate to that, or MMM, that's good. Like. But I'm not being sentimental and IM and I'm not and I'm not attempting to do anything to anyone. I'm mostly talking about myself. I'm really good at talking about myself like that is my music. Is I go here's what I've learned about myself and God and myself and other people. That is what I do with my music. Is I I I relay my life and the things I'm learning on a platform of artistic creativity. So, in one word, for those that haven't checked out all of David Dunn's albums, you would sum up all your music is just selfishness. Oh yeah, maybe I should even ex record that. No selfish no shell fish. People will be allergic know it. If that's what your music is about, I dig it. I'm loving it. Maybe I just resonate with that, I don't know. So I want to take one of your lyrics. It was from one of your songs called seeing loud. When a quote, it says there's a world full of so many voices that have never been heard. Who exactly are those voices? Who are you talking about? Oh, I think what I was trying to say when I was writing that song. I mentioned this a minute ago in passing, is the baggage conversation. will go back to there, as I think that there is an internal voice that is that is almost unknown to the user, that is speaking about itself. As the worst explanation I've ever done in my life. It is it is people, people being true and honest about their own selves and a naked, blatant, open way. And and if they are able to do that, if you are able to see reality of yourself, which is a very difficult thing to do, but if you were able to see the reality of yourself, and that is the first step to wisdom know thyself. Know thyself. That is a very it's hardest in the world. We are master deceivers, self deceivers. People would much rather live as the Avatar on the Internet than who they are in real life. Why? Because they would rather be the Avatar on the Internet, but that's not who they are. They are something else that they maybe don't like. So I'd rather pretend and live in the world that I pretend then I would be in the world that I don't like. That's real. Yeah, yeah, I mean similar to that. I feel like, you know, the voices that aren't being heard. Is a big reason why we wanted to start this whole young marry Christian thing. James came to me and said, Hey, man, I just heard this whole entire presentation about foster care orphans and how there's this big problem, there's this big need and all of the content out there right now to help those people is just strictly saying the facts. It's literally like if you look up any company or any organization that's trying to help orphans, their whole thing is just hey, we're here to help orphans. If you need us, call us, look us up. Online, and so he said, let's make some kind of podcast that can help. They can have a mission but also create really good content, and I'm like, yeah, I'm on board, let's do it. And so that's what we're trying to we're trying to give a voice to those that maybe don't have one, that's not being heard, and we're literally having a conversation with a guy who works for, you know, this company. That's that's all they do. And I I'm new to this world, so maybe I slipped up and use language that I shouldn't have. And I talked about like we're going to eliminate this problem, like no more foster care system. He's Oh, there's always going to be, you know, a pro and there's always going to be like sin in the world. It's always going to bring new kids into the foster care system. And I just sit back and I was like, when I hear words like impossible, you know, and maybe I'll get a little cheesy here, but you know, you take him possible, break it apart. It's I'm possible. I'm standing for I am. Anything's possible with the great I am. And I thought, okay, if I'm looking to buy a house. Like me and my fiance right now we're trying to buy a house and right now the housing market...

...like demand is everywhere, supply not so much. And so I'm like, what if we flip that, because right now it's the opposite with the foster care system. What if we flip that? And what if every kid was in a forever home and there was literally a line waiting so that as soon as a kid gets into the foster care system, we're calling up the next family, Hey, we've got so and so ready for you, and it's just as soon as there's a kid gone, soon as there's a kid gone. And I'm like, what about that? And he heard it and he's just kind of like, okay, never thought about that, and I'm like and that's where we need to start. And I know that for our listeners, you know, some of them have that on their heart. Got's put it on their heart. Maybe they're thinking about fostering, maybe they thinking about adopting and they just don't know what to do. They don't know who to get Ahold of. We've tried to make it very easy. You know, we have this number. You can text the word freedom to the number eight thirty three, seven, zero, six, one zero and just by texting that. It's not going to like immediately have a kid show up to your doorstep. You're not going to immediately become, you know, foster care parent or you're going to be adopting a kid. But we've kind of got three different things that you can do and we'll how. Somebody just get ahold of you, have a conversation with you, just figure out where you are in this journey. And you know, you can either participate and pray with families that are already fostering. We call that wrap around care. So maybe that just means you and a small group at your church. Maybe you just been reading a book, maybe just been hanging out, and now you have a you want a mission. Now you have a serving mission to where you're actually like caring for a family. Maybe you want to just, you know, learn about it. Maybe you just want to do some research, figure out what is this? What are those next steps that I could do? And then the last thing would actually be to participate and you know, maybe you do want to take that journey and take a kid in. So that's what we're trying to accomplish here and and we're hoping that. Yeah, and we're incredible and we're hoping that you know any of those families, whether they take any of those, you know, three different routes that you know, we can kind of have like a Hashtag foster freedom so that we can see, because we would love to be able to connect to those families and we don't know, you know, who's actually doing this, but you know, like we'll be checking instagram seeing, okay, the Robinson family. They Hashtag foster freedom. We now can see them. We know that that family, you know, has adopted, you know, whatever the kid is, and and so that we can, you know, help that family out. Oh, I love that. I think that that fostering and adopting is the most valuable thing that anyone can do, and I think the main reason is is because when you serve someone, you usually do it for a pretty segmented period of time. Is Meals on wheels. I'm going to go once a week for an hour and a half, and that's great. It is great. It's still serving when you adopt, when you foster adopt specifically, but both are in the same realm. It is a lifelong act of service, right. This is this is a person that I am intertwining with my own existence for their benefit and for yours selfish on God's behalf, your your intertwining your existence is irrevocably and that is one of the greatest acts of service you could possibly do. I think. I think the Lord has a special place in his heart for people who choose to foster an adopt. Yeah, that would be a really hard thing to do, incredibly difficult. You're going to do it on you. I think that is awesome. Yeah, yeah, we have I would have a really hard time. The main thing I'm concerned about is I don't really like kids. HMM, and I was a little worried about whether or not I would like my kids. I was, it was more than a little. I was a lot worried about whether or not I would like my kids. I don't enjoy being around kids. For the most part, I'm fine with them being around until they start screaming and then I'm going to leave that room, I'm going to get away from them. And so there's a there's a piece of me, this is probably too much for this, but there's a piece of me that is concerned that if we adopted a kid that I would not have the same amounts of paternal in instincts towards that adopted kid as I would to my own flesh and blood children. Succumbu of...

...that and also worried about my biological children, and especially if we adopted, I think we'd probably lean like to do somebody's little older yeah, and so I don't know if we will. I don't want to. Yeah, my wife does and I do not. I do not think it's a lot having biological so I cannot fathom bringing another one in and then doing it all over with somebody that we adopted. That seems like a ton. I cannot envision going. I'm going to do that. I will if the Lord makes me so. This needs to be another Africa. It would wish. I I think so, or he needs to do something to my heart to change my perspective on it. It's not my perspective. I understand the value. I cannot think of a better thing to do with my life than adopt a child. I just don't want to. Adamantly don't want to. That sounds terrible. It sounds like it would be incredible. Marriage is incredible, but there was a section of it that was sucked having kids. There are parts of it it suck. My old life is dead because I have kids now and I have a new life that I really like, but I also really liked my old life. It's gone and so, HMM, it's that sort of thing. Is that I understand the value. I think it would be really great. I'm ecstatic when other people do it and I adamantly do not want to do it myself. And I think that our message is mostly to those who already have the calling and they just don't know what to do with that, where to go so lily. That's why we're trying to give them that and also the fact that, you know, there's some people either that have even given it a thought and there this is just kind of like a new revelation to them and we're not asking them to dive in head go pray about it. I know, I know learn about in the course of this conversation I am feeling pressured. No, it would adopt myself because I've been talking it up, and so now I'm going, well, if you think so great about once, you heard do it, and now I'm going wait, David, all we ask you to do is go back and listen to our pressuring me. That's not what I'm saying. I don't think you two are pressuring me. I am feeling pressure because of the words that are coming out of my own mouth. I think that if you knew the four hundredzero kids in America, it's about the same number as the churches in America. So all we need is one family per church. One family per church would completely put us at zero and then start flipping that to where there's a waiting list. We're I hope. Yeah, we're not pressuring you, but just go back listen to this episode and Hear Yourself Talk. I think we got something there. But to you started talking about your kids and your family. We've already talked about your marriage with lane. What about just parenting things that? I know you were homeschooled. Do you plan on also homeschooling roads and rocket? Yeah, I was on school toil was thirteen and we will. We will home school them for a couple of years. Me and lean are currently locked in into battle over how many years it's actually going to be. HMM. She wants to homeschool them all the way up. I would like for them to have some social skills so I wants them to go to school, maybe in like junior high, but okay, just and when you put them into school, are you wanting you to do private school? Are you going to do public school, Monessori? I would like to not pay for private school. Okay. That being said, schools in Nashville are a hot mess, absolute dog Poo Poo. So I don't I don't know. We have we have it. We have a ten month old and a three month old. So I'm really thinking about it at this point. Right I'm mostly thinking about how we're going to potty train them. Yeah, which has been a mess. Do you feel like that you being homeschooled until you're a thirteen affected you in any way? Yeah, I think I think it was. It was incredibly valuable because of me learning how to learn, okay, and I think it was incredibly detrimental because I did not really learn how to engage with people that I either wasn't around all the time or related to me until for it. Probably I was probably a little stunted until college. I'd say that there is drawbacks to homeschooling on the social front and there was drawbacks to education on the non homeschooling front, and that depends on your mother as well, be t dub are or whoever is homeschooling. It depends on on her proficiency and being able to teach, but she is very invested usually in helping her...

...own children be at you, Kat. So there they're pros and cons to both sides. Okay. And then with your job currently, well, I guess I shouldn't say currently, because with covid there's not a lot of touring, but your job typically involves a lot of touring and going around. How do you balance out that with intentionality with your boys, like the time that you actually get to spin with them? Is there anything that's just like this is me and dad time? Yeah, I'm not a good person to ask because I really haven't had to deal with that. You know, covid has been happening. Rocket, my second born has. He's ten months olds who he's born in covid. Super cool name. Thank you. That rocket power bagain. Then it's a fad had I don't know any of the words the song. Better learn it. Don't name rocket. He's actually not named after that. What is he named after? Nothing really. We were going to name we we thought we were going to have a girl and so, yeah, I was going to be our girl name, and then we found out was a boy and like, we're going to name a boy, and then he was born and when we still have a name, which just named the girls name that we had, and so that's why it's racket. We like that name. That is a cool name. Okay. So then in the future, do you have any plans for like, I want this to be father's son. This is our thing, camping, skateboarding. I would love for to be sports. Okay, I hope my kids don't do music. Listen, it's adorable little kid concerts, but I cannot think of a more severe form of punishment then then going to a cello concert of my five year old kid, like it's how was that, Daddy? Yeah, that good, son, man, you really hear you love you. Dad Never said anything about how good I was. So contrast that with like pee wee football. There's no comparison. Yeah, it'd be so much more fun to be a dad or be we football. Then somebody playing the trombone when there's six. So I hope that they're into sports. I'm trying to push him that direction. That being said, my firstborn is an absolute unit. He is huge, he's like he's a ninety nine point nine percentile and wait, and he's stacked and he has no interest in anything sports related. He wants to sing, dance and then rocket. Rocket, looks like he might be a little bit more athletically inclined. Okay, and he's in like the eighth percentile and length and twelve percent Alan. Wait, so I think the Lord's playing a practical joke on me. Not much to work with there, but hey, yeah, okay, it'll be fun. So if there's father son, say it's too early, Bro I like most of it's been in Covid. Rhodes was one and a half when covid started or something like that, and so I asked me in like two or three years. I do not currently have any plans, but I would like for that to be the case. Is that they're in a sports and I'll put that would be fun for me, but whatever they're into, I'm going to my life is now revolves around my children and my wife. HMM, that's if you don't take that away from this conversation, that means I hadn't said it enough. It does revolve around them. It's Jesus, my wife and my kids and that's my life. And then in the music I throw in as seasoning on top of all of that. Anything that you want to do differently with them than what Your Dad did with you? I want to do a lot of the same things. Okay, I think my parents are two of the most incredible people on the planet. I do. I do want my kids to be around more people that aren't like them. I grew up in in Midland, Texas and and a lot of my life was especially home schooling. Out of my life was other homeschoolers who were very similar to the Dun family, and so I want my kids to be around people that aren't like them more, but a lot of the same stuff that my parents do. What you mean? Oh, I don't know, I haven't thought about that a ton. I mostly want to do what my parents did. I think they did a really great job. So voices, what did he asked me. What are some of the things that they did really well? Choices and personal responsibility, which is hilarious because of them a dodger. Personal responsibility not that big of a deal. Now, that's that's a lie. Personally, is a big deal for me because I had the authority thing. One of the main things that my father did that was really instrumental was cut me loose when I was eighteen. I was very much mettle finger to my father and mother all the way through.

...was very angry that someone had authority over me. It was my parents. And so when it was time to go to college, a lot of people, a lot of people tend to keep their claws in their kids, usually financially. I'm going to keep paying for your school, but you better do good or else we're going to take it away. Parents to not do that to me. My Dad gave me some money and said you can spend this on school or you can do whatever you want. You're not getting any money ever again. And and then he kicked me out the door and I went to my own thing. And, to be honest with you, I told my dad this recently and he keeps saying it over and over again. So I think it might be impactful if they had not done that, if they had kept their claws in me, and I'm going to do this my boys. If they kept their claws in me, then I would have tanked my own life to spite them. I would have gone to school and I would have burned my own existence down because out mine Sayre's I'm going to burn their existence down, just despite them. So I think that saved me and also Jesus became mine because they let go. Very difficult for my mother. And the best thing they are happening to me was my parents relinquishing control of me when I went off to school. Our Pot about relinquishing control is that you're no longer in control. I could have chosen to become a smackhead or whatever, jumped off the you know, the edge of insanity and done my own they lived out on the street. I could have done all of those things. Are All viable options, but the illusion of parental control after somebody turns eighteen is, for whatever reason, really incredibly appealing to people, and so them doing that for me, I think it's a good example of them preparing us to take control of our own lives and understand the value of consequences, the big part of it as well. They did that with it was a big deal with me, and they did it child's dependent. So they did it with my older brother and they did it with and they did all three of my brothers. I haven't thought about that. They did not do that with my sisters, but they offered to and my sister's declined. HMM. So there was no offer for us. It was the boot. It was an offer for my sisters. Well, we're running out of time here today. Last thing I have for you. Have you seen the movie? What happened to Monday? NOPE, it's on Netflix. Doesn't matter if you've really seen it. But the whole story is the world has come to a place where you can all have one child per family and like China, Yep, and this family they have seven kids, septuplets. They name them after each day of the week and there's a scene. Yeah, so eating the preview. I think. So each child can go out one day a week. And the reason why I bring this up is that in the movie the One child Sunday. They're they're having a conversation with her and they say, but you have to have hope. You're the believer in the family. And they don't say it necessarily, but I believe that's because that's the only child that could go to church every Sunday. So like that was the believer in the group Church. You know, once a week. No, the other ones ever got to go to church. And my worry is, and I see this a lot, is that our culture, in our Christian society, is all I do is go to church once a week and then the other six days of the week look like those other six people, those other six girls, where they don't they don't have the belief, they don't have the religion. So is there anything practically, a good practical advice that you have for anyone, maybe just for the church or for someone at in the church, that they can use to where it's not that case, where religion doesn't just become religion on Sunday, where every day looks like what's what? What that girl Sunday? You know? Yeah, I think. I think changing perspective of choosing life is religion. Take religion out. The perspective of choosing life is that Jesus is acting, asking you to live your life in such a way that's best for you, and so choosing life has nothing to do with going to church on Sunday. That's that's like a American British creation, this one day a week thing, right. We've created it to, you...

...know, be able to do our checklist or pay for the week, the other six days. But, but Jesus is about US choosing life. So changing your perspective of I can choose myself and destruction or I can choose myself by a God and and all of that other stuff is a mood point. You know, you go to church, you don't go to church. You choose life so that you can live. Stop choosing death. It's up choosing your own way, because your own way leads to destruction. Choose God's way because it's best for you. You want to be the first of the table. Put yourself at the last. Serve other people, live for life here on this planet. Bring Heaven to Earth. MMM, amazing. Think we're out of time today. David. For our listeners, what are some ways that they can get some more of double D's Mr How can they find you? I mean, let anywhere that you find anyone to have in my name on the Internet and first off it'll pop up with Bruce Willis from unbreakable. HMM, because his name is David done, Superhero. Yeah, and then it will be me next. Okay, so it's fool shadow spot. I mean outside of like your spotify and like apple music, like music stuff is all of your social media. Just at David done. It's David t done. HMM. Or my social media is David t done. David done was taken. Okay, well, that's all the time we have. Thank you so much. This is awesome, this is great, a good time. All right, man, till next time. All right, y'all, we hope you loved that conversation. Here at Young Mary Christian we are on a mission to see a Gospel centered home made available for every single child in the foster care system. There are four hundred thousand kids in the foster care system and there are four hundred thousand churches in America. Y'All. The church can solve this problem. If you want to join us on this mission, text the word freedom to eight three, three, three, seven hundred, one six, one hundred. And another thing you can do to help us grow the reach of this podcast is to leave a rating in apple podcast. It's super simple. Just go to the show's page, scroll down and give us a rating for this show. DEBOT. What's a good rating? Typically just count the fingers on my hand and then I click that many stars. All right, so we're not telling you to give us a five star rating. But for the love of everything holy, it would help us ton if you went and give us a rating. I guess for that guy that has four fingers, just add one. Yes, you don't even have to leave a review, because, let's be real, that takes too long. Just go to apple podcasts and leave us a rating. Yes, but seriously, though, if you do nothing else, at least text the word freedom to eight. Three three three seven, oh, one six, one hundred and eight. Three three three seven out one hundred and six, one hundred and a three three three seven out one six. One hundred and eight. Three three three seven out one six, one hundred and.

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