@davidtdunn - What Makes Christian Musicians Walk Away From Jesus? w/ David Dunn

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode, we talk to David Dunn. He's a BEC Recording Artist that you've likely heard on a K-Love station near you. He's been a contestant on The Voice, played college basketball, and spent close to a year of his life in Zambia. He's a husband to Leen, dad to Rhodes and Rocket, and in this episode he shares his honest thoughts on the music industry, marriage, and parenting.

You can find David on YouTube, Instagram, and Spotify

Welcome back to another episode ofyoung married christian here, young married christian, we are in a missionto see a gospel center at home, made available for every single child in thefoster care system, and in this episode, debo talks to one of my really goodfriends. David done, you have heard david on spotify. You've heard him on aclub station near you. You probably even saw him on nbc's the voice a fewyears back dave is incredible. He is brilliant and you're going to love thisconversation yeah, so brilliant and intelligent that i thought even i wasintelligent for a while. During the conversation i mean, i love where ourconversation went. One of my favorite things was just getting to hear thehistory and the journey of where he went from the beginning until now andeverything with his career, a lot of unexpected twists and turns yep, andone of the parts of the conversation that i really liked was dave talkingabout the cultural differences between africa and the us he actually lived inzambia. For about eleven months. I got to hang out with them in the summer oftwo thousand and eight in zambia, and so him talking about that dynamic waswas super, interesting yeah and how alien art culture feels to that andkind of how alien or christian culture is to collaborations. Apparently,because we talked about why we don't see as many christian collaborations aswe want so hold on to your prayer beads whitney, because we are young married risto day, we have david dunn, aka, thedave aka olds aka throw some ds on it. I don't think any of those actuallyhappen. I'm pretty sure this are all your nickname. Okay, that's what it'spopping on wikipedia these days. I need to check out my ovidio pages inmaybe do a few incognito edits? Okay, so we're so excited to have youtoday? Thank you so much for coming on the show. One thing that i need to ask all of ourguests is: what's your favorite fast food restaurant other than chick fillet,and when you go to it, what are you ordering is easy? I think they might even have these inflorida and an out burger without question. We need it. I should say it'snot in florida. No, i should say water burger because i'm from texas- and soit's blastoma a little bit for me to say in an out burger, but i like, ihave in an outburgled flowing through my veins and so i've been flushing iti'm sorry. I have water burger flowing through my veins and i have been slowlyflushing it out with in and out berger, and we don't have to ask you what youorder, because there's just one thing on the menu yeah, you get the debledough. That's that and you get a animal style. I do not get animal style, idon't get it. Frisky do not get way with animal styles frisky. Now it'sfrisky that you don't get it that way interesting! So, okay, let's jump into it the humancondition your song came out years ago. What was going on when you wrote thatsong there's actually like two separatestories involved with that one? Okay, we'll start the first okay first story is: i was driving down the road innashville tennessees, where i live, driving down the road and i felt as if i was doing a prettygood job of driving. But there was a woman behind me thatdisagreed, and so she like she like did the hornthing nater and like right up on my bumper, i'm like i doing that thing. What i do, what areyou doing and she like guns, it pulls up next tome and slams on the brake so that she's going the same thirty five miles anhour or whatever it was going next to me and then like looks out our windowand tells me that i'm number one hey that'sgood and i have no idea why she was so upset. But she was so that's story.Number one store number two is like: two days later: i'm at chick fillet, god's house, hmm and i'm standing in line and there'shis cat in front of me- he's probably like fifty five years old and he's baldand and i'm like half paying attention, because that's mostly what i do and andhe's ordering and he like, gets livid there's like a sixteen year old girlwho she works at chick flay, so she's like the sweetest human being in theplanet, she's sitting back there taking his order and he like loses it on her.I just start screaming, causing a scene, so i tune in immediately, like oh scots house lets a this can't be happening herehappening here. This isn't pop eyes, you don't pray, no offense, ive pop bis, love yoursaying which he hasn't up. That was very offensive to pop eyes, but we'llmove on i'm just going off. The videos...

...i see on the internet by is is prettygood yeah when they did like the chicken sandwich comparison thing. Thatwas ridiculous, but those chickens. Sandwiches are good, though, did youlike pop eyes, better yeah y h, o course you do because they're betterthey're way better, but they're good sandwiches yeah. I was shocked. Whatwas i just talking about? You were saying that you were at chick fillet onthe ball. Gar was a carfuffle nice word, so the dude flips out onthis on the sixteen year old girl and- and i in the course of like listeningto him scream, i had figured out that he wanted like a hand full of chickfillet sauces and she was offering him to which normally they'll give you abunch, and so i can kind of i'm not on this guy's side, but in the same moment,i'm going to a sixteen year old girl. She looks very pleasant in this. Dudeis liking out on her yeah i mean a lot of places are charging you per saucepacket, but not takulli? No well, maybe this location, i no! I don't reallyknow what was going on. I know is that fifty five year old, bald guy, yet theshine mr clean, was very angry stuff times of that chick flet, somethingcaus coved m. No, it wasn't visit before no explanation as no excuse.There is anyway, all right. So those two stories have in a succession and here's what i realized mostly when we interact with humanbeings on this planet. We brush them in passing and that's really all we get from them. We see this tiny blip on our radar andwe make snap evaluations or judgments on who that person is based on thesequick little passings, hmm and i live on a street and we've livedthere. I think, like a year at this time, i lived on a street or live on astreet to er. Really i don't know any of my neighbors and i was driving down that road andseeing all dope it was at night time. I could just see all of these porchlights. It was a wednesday night. I believe it was a wednesday. I funny.You know that that's in the song for people who don't know well yeah- and irealized that the extent of my knowledge of these people is just thisbrush. That's all i know about him and all ofthose porch lights represent an entire existence. Fifty sixty eighty wit of anolder neighborhood years of life that i really don't know anything about mostof us. Don't nowadays it's not like our parents generation were you know. Wewent to our neighbor's house to get butter and sugar a totally, but itextends to even like everyone right. You really only know a couple of peoplehandful this inner circle. You know these people because you've been intheir lives and you understand them and everybody else. It's just a brush, and so i don't know what those people'sstory is. I don't know what mr clean story is a chick flat, but he has oneand the woman with the finger. I don't know what her story is either, but shehas one i'm going to make some things up here, because i have no idea, butthis could be the case. It could be that mister clean he just found out he's getting evicted, he doesn't have any money he's gone intwo days and here he is at chake fillet, and this is when i brushed him, and i made the evaluation, this guy's achurch m this guys a jerk coerce. This guy is the worst. That's my evaluationwoman finger same thing. Maybe she found out that she has cancer. She just found out. She has cancer, probably not i'm, making the stuff uphere, but something right. There was an entire. She was probably fifty thisfifty years of reasons why she came to this point, and maybe this is how shealways is, or maybe this is just this moment i don't know yeah, but there isa reason, and so human condition is is acknowledging that that those brushes are occasions for us who love jesus tobe grace to other people to be kind, because every one has a story, and weforget that we forget that people have stories. Wetend to treat them as if they are the brush that we thought they were. So i think that's when jesus talksabout judgment in the bible, i think a big portion of that is, is not acknowledging where people have come from reallytheir story, that people have stories and i'm not excusing the behavior, notsaying that it's okay, what they did right, but it's so hard for people tohave that empathy in the moment when they feel personally attacked and theirpride walls come up and they immediately want to have that mereneuron effect. Where you give it to me, i give it right a to youo, yeah, yeahand then and then for me, it's like the...

...with the woman wit the finger,especially it's like a fifteen twenty minute linger of me being like right. Well, that story of you liketelling her to go around you lifehack. If you didn't know this, if acop flips on his lights behind you and you just roll down your window and youtell them to go around, sometimes it i confuse them enough to where they won'tpull you over. Is that true? My father taught me that i literally i watched ithappen. I put that one in my hip pocket sorry, i would like to pause for asecond to say: i've been a lot of places in my life. I've been everywherein the united states, that's not true, but all of the big places, and i do notbelieve that there are any worse drivers than people in orlando floridawelcome home. So i say shocked by the amount of inaptitude you people aredelightful. Well, it's a combination of taurisretires and college kids over at disney is a really tough, combo yeah, so thatsong, even though it was written you know years ago- and it was it soundslike you had these personal experiences that made it very relatable, and i meanwho can't ever relate to needing more kindness in the world and and seeingthe fact that yeah there are so many people out there that you don't knowanything about their story, but like last year to me, i felt like imean, obviously because of coved. It felt like a very different year, but itwas groundbreaking because of like the racial division and the diversity thatwe experience as a country which, even like we took a vacation tothe virgin islands, and we could even see that you know black lives mattereven there, and so it's something that hit our country in a very big way. So ifeel like that sounds even more relatable. Now how did last year, with everythinggoing on how that have an effect on you, here's the thing: i'm gonna, i'm goingto take a different tact here. Okay, here's what i'll say i think last year was the year of theinternet. I know we say it's a year of coved, two thousand and twenty, but ithink it was the year of the internet and here's. What i believe is mostlywhat happened last year is that we lived in a space that wasn't real. The internet is not real. Social mediais not real right. It's not me on social media. That's talking to people,it is my avatar that i've created. All you got to do is look in people's paces.Those aren't the real lives, that's not the way they behaveon social media. This is something they've created for themselves. You'retell me you and lean are not constantly smiling with your children, see in thewoods. Sometimes i have to clean up the poop all over me from my two year old,okay, keep going, and by sometimes i mean all the time we're trying to potetai. That's neitherhere nor there. What was he talking about? So? Did youyou're talking about how the internet's not real right, yeah so the year of twothousand and twenty was the year of the internet right and so with with basically all of the conflictor a big portion of it? I think i think the majority of it is: is the internetbeing the internet right, the anger of the hostility of frustration? I feltall of that, but it was on the internet. You go out in real life and there was acouple of weeks to where i walked around and i'm a white guy and i walkedaround and every black person i saw i go like i hate me hm the dresden help they do actually help in real life.Yeah, that's the thing about real life andfake life right is. Is i came to conclusion after a couple of weeks.This isn't real right. It is to a certain extent, but this isn't the waythat the world actually is. Everybody doesn't hate everyone else,but on the internet, everyone hates everyone else, and so i think i think i think that's abig thing that i learned about two thousand and twenty is the differencebetween reality and and the internet. There, i'm not saying it's not the casein bubbles and that it's a hundred percent off, but the vehement and hatred and andthroat slitting that is constantly happening on the internet. It doesn'toccur in any world that i'm around right and i'm in i'm around all, i think a big portion of the world's innashville, especially and for the most part you know it's howit was which there were good eggs and bad eggs and people are mostly kind toeach other, with exceptions and like i don't think things actually likeradically changed and hatred went to a new level like they did on the internet,like. I don't believe that right, but people were believing it because wecouldn't go out side to see anything...

...different and we're watching. It is allwe had last year. So all we had was the internet, and that was happening at thesatin time, but i can't member where they started now. But that's that's howi feel about last year. I think it started with tiger king but a started with mullets, which is howthings always go downhill in a hurry and we've ended with male's. I don'tknow if you know this, but it's like a new big thing. My mother halds up somepictures of some kids in high school for my old stamping grounds she waslike this is what all the cool, because you're doing now and i was like they're,not cool. I once had a mullet. What are you saying, you're very cool, i'm just playing. Actually i bindbrokeman yeah. I want to jedi braid, so bad, but anyways we're getting offtopic. So i feel like that. What happened last year was we're allyou know home. We are just getting our news from theinternet or watching the news. We've got an election year. We have peoplethat aren't going to their jobs. They got a lot of free times, so they'regoing out and doing all that stuff, and you forget about the fact that there'sso much kindness that you can create and that you and the other people arecreating like the people that aren't getting put up on the news. You knowquick story. Two days ago we went to universal studios, there is crazyamount of traffic, and i'm talking to james and he's saying you know he's inthis like hour, long wait or whatever and i've just waited an hour, and i getto the front. I see it. A family, their cars broke down. They've ran out of gas.Coincidentally, you know what songs playing on my radio the human condition now we're talking. It was like,literally god, wasn't just whispering in my ear. God was like choke slammingme and the fact that i just finished theseason of ted lasso. It's just like all on my heart of like kindness and thati'm hearing the story about you know we might be on different roads, but we'reon the same street and i'm thinking, oh, my gosh. I've got to do something. I'vegot to help this guy out. So what do i do? I after i've waited an hour in this line.I go round get this guy gas come back and he's not even there anymore. I don't know what the meaning of thatis, but i now have a really good connection with the security guy atuniversal victor he's a great guy how similar was universal to your year inafrica, yeah yeah, the thing about that i meanthat's. The main thing about africa is is that it was incredibly lonelybecause i was i was the only westerner and you picked us up, probably too,when you were there, but because, because it is so ingrained culture,just profound loneliness occurs when nobody else speaks your language andi'm not mean physically. They spoke english, mostly in sabia, but there'sprofound loneliness when, when human interaction that we consider this iswhat humans do us, what we're doing right now we out this is what humans doit's not what humans do m it's, what westerners do and in africa they do ita different way, even like friendship, friendship, looks different in africathan it does in the west. It's just it's just these cultural differencesare so you know to the west and i think, probably for them as well, but to thefrom a westerner's perspective. It looks as if this is an alien societyand i'm having to relearn how to be a being to be able to engage with them onthe same wave ling. What were some of the readily lonely over some of thosethings that you were just like? Oh wow, this is apparently not how you guys doit. It's a it's a difficult thing to explain, probably one of the best ones, i'd loveto know. If you have any stories, james n, jane, came and visited me when i wasthere. We were just talking about that second and go, which was shocking. Itotally forgot about that until fifteen seconds ago, how long ere you there amonth on to, but you were there for two months: that's so wild thesi on the edge of you, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Oh my gosh. I forgot.I first got there. You were not yeah, it's so lonely, it's so lonely. Whatdid you ask me lebe? You said something sorry i was asking you you know ifthere was anything that was obviously alienating about what they do notalienating alien. Sorry, i was alien. I wasn't alienated, so you felt part of the culture, butyou feel, like you were doing things a little differently. I no, i did notfeel like. I was part of the culture a...

...good way to even like the way, we'respeaking right t the is a difficult thing todescribe this is this is like one of the only like really hard hittingexamples that i have friendship is in africa. It's it's more based on on sharing materialsthan it is in america, so you you're saying materials not like an xbox butyou're saying more, like you actually need this brick. I know now everything,okay, everything. So a good example was there was a dude in town. I lived in aplace called cingola and there was a dude in town who his expression of the depth of ourfriendship was for him to like walk into my hot that i was in when i wasn'tthere and grab my clothes and take them for himself, and then i only knew because i waswalking around town and there he was wearing my shirt and i walked up to him.I was like nice shirt, he was like yes, i love it right, and so it's like tothem, it is. It is like it's the expression of friendship. How much youare willing to give me and me asking you for the thing hey. Can i have youshirt, i'm not asking for your shirt, i'm asking you: how deep is ourfriendship and that's how we determine thosethings so for us, a big portion- and i'm i'm simplifying here- so take thiswith a tiny grain and salt, but for us a big part of the. What we do aswesterners is go. What do we have in common? Do we enjoy being around eachother and know how many shared experiences do wehave and those things still exist? It's not like they're completely gone, butbut there the value chain of what's important is substantially different. Ithink i'm doing a lousy job of explaining this, but it's a verydifficult thing to explain. Well what i'm hearing is in african culture. Whatmine is yours and what's yours is mine, becomes a definition of how good offriends we are so, whereas in america it's like, i might ly, are you using mein america? This is a negative thing. Yes, is you you're asking me for some o?You only want to be my friends so that you can take from me that that's myhackles do when somebody goes hey. I need give me my. I immediately go i'm beingused in africa. That's not that's not the case. They don't go on being used,they go. This person wants to be my friend hmm, so so i'm talking out like that andeven like humor humor, is a good example. Humor in africa is veryliteral. Okay, so i recall like i was in a place with a tv and there was acouple of african stations, and so i think james you might have been there forthis. Actually i think we talked about this. We were sitting there watchingthis comedy program and by the way, humor is almostexclusively cultural. Didn't realize that either until i went to africa, butit's almost exclusively cultural except for far jokes, i'm sure they don't carehow no far sir they're not funny gat ever yeah. Okay, if they are then different people than i was with sogive us what's their humor like so i was watching this tv show and thepeople i were with thought. It was hysterical guys, two guys sitting up onscreen and they're really talking about nothing and what they're doing whilethey're sitting there talking about nothing is grabbing in this giant box.They have next to him different funny, hats and putting them on and every timethey put on a new hat. The people with me be like that's the funny scrap of hers. I sit there looking around going like it's, so it's literal humor, that's agood way to describe it is. Is it's i'm trying to demean because because itis, it is what it is? It's not it's not it's not less or better. It's right. Itis what it is just the same way they review our humor. Just like. Oh, that's,not funny. It's not funny to the right, yeah yeah, it's fine, you know, and abig part of the language word play is a big thing. What we do in the west, aswe do word, play with english now puns, we to tell a dad joke. That's that's myspeed exactly at jokes or my jam, so things are a little alien. Humor isdifferent, so yes, there's big differences and i guess i missed whatyou were actually doing over there. What was your purpose for africa? I wasdoing. I call it micro financing because it's easier people understandthat a little bit better, but i went with like this back of donors who weretrying to end the po poverty cycle.

Okay in africa, so poverty cycle for anybody's notfamiliar is basically somebody is a subsistence farmer, so they go out andthey plant in their back yard and then they grow their corn and then they eatit. And then they repeat next year go and do it again or forage a big part aswell. These giant mango trees, the tons of food and africa. It's incrediblyfertile. Hmm, i say africa's a continent in zambia, sam by isincredibly fertile to right. Next to the equator yeah, most people wouldn'tthink of africa's having a cornucopia of food. It's everywhere, i'm in the dothey do. You know congo, if you seen enough movies than you do, but it's notlike. I know egypt eat, there's not much foodin egypt m. Mostly that's it. You know africa's giant, it's a hugecontinent, so saying avocats like saying: oh in the united states, itrains a lot kind of it brings a lot in florida. It doesn't rain much incalifornia or nevada. Was i talking about? Well, i'm curious.Was this before you became a recording earnest? Yes, so what kind of impactdid that have on your journey to becoming a christian artist? I don't know about christian artists,but becoming an artist, okay, instrumental. If i had not done africa,i would have not done music or i would have quit really quickly is a betterway to say it. Hm i'll, tell you: why is because music, as as a a vocation asa means of living, is two main things. It's one: how well you create i'm going to do theother thing in so that on a six one, how well you create and then to it, is how well you cantake failure, and so this thing i was trying to do inafrica was a smashing one hundred per cent through the floor. Failure itabsolutely tanked and mostly because i made it tank m, did you know what i wasdoing? Finances are viewed differently inafrica, like finances, a sort of a western thing, and so you know most of it just got lit onfire. The things i was trying to do to help in this poverty cycle figurativelylit on fire. Not i'm imagining you waking up in the morning. All the moneyis in a fire and they're just dancing and laughing yeah, not quite that. Okay,okay, okay, but you've got the right picture, the figure to picture so so it was the first time in my life,where i had a failure, a giant failure that i could not blame on someone else.I couldn't go yeah i feel at this, but you know i try to play collegebasketball for a couple of years, and that was a big failure and it was a hundred percent on me, butit was easy to go in my own brain. No, i wasn't really me. It was a coach. Hegot fired right after i left lik. I was terrible. He screwed me up. I wouldhave been incredible if it weren't for so africa happened, and there wasnobody else to blame. I couldn't go like this person is the one who holding theback. I was holding the back hmm. So this is what i say about africa is up.I went to be good for africa. It's one of the only times. Gods told me to dosomething specifically only one of two times early in my life. We sold me todo something specific, and i went because i want this is a great idea. I,when i help change the continent, this is really going to help people a tonand it did not. I did not help africa at all, butafrica instrumentally helped me the best thing that ever happened to me,and that being said, it was the worst year of my life. I hated it it's awfulevery second for moments of joy, mostly when somebody would come and visit melike james or my sister came. We had some other friends that came. They came the same time as you yeah, ithink so too. Moments of joy, connection with the father was wasreally great right because when you feel like you need them, which we don'tusually in the west, but when you feel like you need them, because you were byyourself. The commune with jesus is really heavy.She was really good, but the lesson of learning how to fail is the reason i domusic now because music is is, is directly related to how well you canhear somebody say you stink. What i do is i make this thing andespecially early on in my career. I make this thing: it's a song, it's analbum and then i hand it to somebody and go listen to this and internallyi'm going. This is me giving myself to...

...some one else and then that personlistens to it and most of the time they go, may fun. You get way more nose than you getyes, whatever it is, i'm handin it to a radio station. You should play this,that's not very good and in it to a management company. Heyyou guys should do something with me. Now, it's not very good. Just it mostlyyou stink. That's mostly what you hear constantly chipping away at your pride,your ego, yeah you're, failing you you're failing over and over again, andyou it's being reinforced by other people. So for me, i'm like naturally very sensitive to success.Failure and i think most people are probably i don't know. I haven't-haven't thought about that tone, but i am very sensitive to success. Failureand so learning how to be okay with a stamp of failure is what i learned inafrica and if i did not have that, i would acquit very early in music,because that is what music is is, is learning how to deal with failure, andi don't care who you are all the way up the food chain of artists. That is the case. Some people justnaturally are okay with it, the ones that i know that are it's people thatjust don't care, and i and i people probably, would think that idon't be like. I probably doesn't care you have that look. I know yeah, youlook chili, i don't know yeah. You look very chill back like that blows my mindand i feel like anybody listening to this, it's shocking, because when youthink of musician- and you think of you, know a recording artist that you knowdoes well, i mean millions of views and you're on youtube. You're on spotifyyour on, like you're, everywhere you're, going on tour, they think of successand they think of how do they handle the success and all of the fame and theglory they don't think of. How are they handling failure like no one isthinking about how you know how is justin bever handlingfailure. Now they think of house haling success, and then you see that, in thenews of like too much success makes the person you know, go crazy with all thepaparazzi and like brenne spear stuff, like that. So it's just like like baffling to me that you're notover here, saying i had to figure out how to handle thesuccess. It's no. I had to figure out how to handle failure after failureafter failure and and constantly like chipping away, but then you have thislike diamond at the end of it. You know this this thing that you can be proudof that us as listeners get to hear, and i get to listen to yeah and ilisten i'm not on the same scale as beber right. It was a whole differentthing. Okay, look! So i think don't try to humble yourself that i put you above peter thanks dad. I i think so. I think that handlingsuccess is incredibly difficult. I think the entire book of james- that'sall they're talking about- is how to deal with success right. So i thinkthat is the ultimate trial, that that is not the way that i viewthe world and especially when it comes to music as a vocation- and i haven'tever- i don't know beaver, so i don't know if like if that was his experience,he started really early and he has had a ton of the success. So for myperspective, i would agree with you d, be like oh no he's the other in thespector. He probably doesn't deal with failure, but i i'm sure people would view you the sameway if they didn't- probably probably they weren't sitting here- listen in toyoung mary christian yeah, now, okay, going from failure that i'm not i'm nottrying to make a complete bridge here. But how is your experience on the voice? Speaking of failure thanks a lot o l? No, i because i think it's cool,like i think it's cool that you were on a television show that if you talk toninety five percent of americans- and you say the voice, you know what thevoice is yeah. Maybe they don't watch it religiously, but, like we all knowwhat the voice is like. How was that i was awesome. Yeah actually doesn't feellike a failure. I know no, it's not it's. Not. As there was like a i oneseason to for anybody, doesn't know you can look it up, don't look it up. I gotkicked out really quickly. I was i was. I was believing you i was like. Theinternet has got this all wrong. What thank god? I should just let it ride now. It was really fun. You know it was like. It was like akid's camp right is like a kids camp, except for there was no kids, it wasjust the adult coaches right, okay, they'd, lock you in a hotel for like amonth and there's like two hundred people inthere that are all very similar. The voices like it's mostly like aspiringartists and people who have careers, but it's some sort of you know you'reat some sort of low intermediate level of your career, trying to make it work.That sort of thing- and at that point, where were you in your career, i'd, putout one really terrible record in...

...college self. Titled david done now.This one was called. I sor e, i e space, so re really gross. We, i don't eventhink that's on spotify. No. I have removed that one from everywhere. It'slike disney song in the south. You don't want anyone seeing it or hearingit. Yes, exact, okay, so you'd release thati swore uhhh, i released, i sort and it was. It was the first thing i ever did. Idid it because i had a friend who who i semi met through james who wastrying to do a like. He was doing a recordingengineering degree and his senior project. He had to record someone, and so i was writing songs and playingthem. I was in lubbock texas at the time and- and i call him was like hey- ihave some songs have been running. You should record on for me which doestogether and he is actually an incredible engineer and producer he's aguy still work with occasionally to this day, and so he made a record thatsounded in ten times better than i was an artist at the time, but they stillwere the songs. I was writing, so you can only polish, a turd so muchright, but it was like people like are like. I think that still a terred right.So that's how i feel about that project. You're scratching his back. He wascrashing your back. It sounds to me like an african friendship, yep yeah. I don't know sorry, okay, so you had it.I did that one and then i put out an actual decent record david done so ti,i think so davy on e p v. I think that was called yeah. You hadn't releasedyour christmas album. Yet no christmas record happened after the third project,okay yeah, so you had some good music out there and you're going on the show.I just i put out five songs that were actually good and- and i had a bunch ofsweet friends who bought it both of those records. That's really kind ofthe thing that got me started is so i had a bunch of friends that were like.Oh, this is so great because they liked me in a sweet and so and the voice reach you out and, and iwent on the show and got kicked off the don't you're there. You aren'tthere the end it was there and then i wasn't any any tips were. Is that i wasattractive. That's a win, i say: what's your numberha ha, i didn't shouldah thought it, though idid think there's so many men out there there thinking things that theyprobably should have said, there's probably men that say things that theyshould have just thought. Hmm. What would be your one piece of advice forany listeners that maybe want to go out for something like the voice oramerican idol or some kind of singing competition yeah have fun, don't think it tooserious. I feel like i feel, like peopleespecially like this is my life and i'm gonna. I'm going to do this singingshow and that's how i'm going to make it happen. Don't be so don't don't? Dothis a serious like it's really a good time? If you allow yourself to have agood time, there was two kinds of people on it show right. There was likethe people who treated it like a kid's camp, and thenthere was people that were like this is a competition, that's on my competitionpeople, and so they go and lock themselves in in their hotel room.There was a bunch of people that, like popped up after i was like. I saw thatperson like. Is that like that? So i you know i don't. Maybe they were justintroverted, but i think a lot of stress went into it. That was needlessbecause people were, they were less interested in enjoying the experiencein more interested in whatever else you would do. I don'teven know well and i feel like those that's evenyou in the christian music realm, because a lot of christian artists are, i don't want to say that you're, not aserious christian artist, you're, not like a tenacious d. You know in thechristian world at the weird, all of christian music hatory. Yet exactlyyeah, that's coming up next place, jack or oh, my gosh. I would listen to everysong on a p predestination, it's a tenacious joke. I love that. Yes,i think the tribute was actually a song about one of yourself yeah and me andjack yeah black wrote it together. I love that, butwhat i was going to say is that in your world, in the in the christian musicindustry, like you, are kind of more laid back more chill and i feel like alot of christian artists like when you come to their show and you see them, itfeels like a very serious experience where they are. They have his formula to almost likemanifest the spirit whether or not you know it's happening or not, and youdon't do that at your show. No, a big portion of what i tried to do is i'm actively trying to be myself evenon social media is a difficult thing to do. I, especially when, in the age ofbranding m like this, is how i want to...

...brain my stuff. I think about thatoccasionally been on very often i'm really i'm trying to be me with what i,with what i make musically and who i am on stage. I i think that really is an issue. I don't know if it's an issue forparticipants for concert goers, but it is for artists, and i think a bigportion of the reason is that authenticity when it comes tojesus is coming into question. There's sort of this wave of artists who who are following this blue print ofhow to do things right. You you put out these songs that fit in this mold, andthen you do these concerts that fit this way and the concerts that fit thisway. A lot of the times it ends up being sort of like a spiritual drugdealing event to where you go, and i have to make these people feel, likegod is present, and so this is the this is the way to do that. We're going todo light to this way. We could have these moments where people can beintimate, going to try and create this experience. There's nothing wrong withthat. Don't get me wrong, i'm not like saying. Oh everybody should stop doingthat. No! No, because when i go and see like an elevation or a hill song or apassion, that is almost my expectation. It is your expectation i'm not going iswhat people want. Yeah is what people weren't the hard power for artists is.Is that what it ends up becoming? Is afabrication? Is i'm fabricating these things to tryand stir these emotions over and over again, i'm continually fabricating thatthe holy spirit is here and sometimes he is, and sometimes he is and and meas the person who standing up on stage i'm trying to make this happen becausethat's how you sell tickets or that's what people need or that's people want,there's tons of different motor type motivations and what happens with the artist is. Isthat if that's the case, if you're fabricating a lot of times, jesusbecomes less real to you. Hmm, because then you get in the zoneof i'm just fabricating is this real? Is jesus even real sort of a denali al,so i have a decent number of friends who, like are pretty forefront in thechristian music industry that the christian music industry sort of leadsthem to go. I don't know if this stuff is real like m. This is what i do, and so i'mgoing to keep doing it or sometimes not, and- and i don't know what to do withthat- like that- that is an easy path to jump on is. Is you know i'm going to i'm going to make thisstuff happen? I'm going to make these people feel and then you do that overand or and over again and the uko. What's real like what is the holy spirit? Actuallymove? Is he? Is he really or is it just me being a spiritual drug dealer? Am idoing this or is jesus doing this feels like i'm doing it, because i know thatthis is the equation to make people feel like jesus is present all right.So if that's the equation- and i don't do the equation and people don't showup any more that maybe jesus is not here at right. It's that that's an easyplace to go, and it happens way more often than you would think,and i think that that almost becomes what defines christian music as a genre,because you look at other music genres and it's always based on how the musicsounds. You know jazz, it sounds like jazz, rock and roll. It sounds likerock and roll christian music. You have everything from david done to davidcrowner to under oath and that's all labeled. As christian yeah and yet verydifferent- and i think it's because that genre of music there is thatexpectancy to you know the audience needs to be brought into this specialplace and man if there was a way to to fixthat for the artist that'd be amazing, but i don't see that ever changingwhere the audience is coming in to a jesus culture performance and notexpecting that you know if jesus culture just came out out- and i don'tthink there's anything wrong with expecting now and i don't think there'sanything wrong with fabricating, i'm just i'm just talking about wherethings go easily with artists, so i'm not callingfor a change. Oh this needs to stop, because this is everybody's, justfaking it i don't right. I don't believe that to be true. I don'tbelieve that to be true. I just think that this is an easy place to gomentally as an artist when your job in your own mind, is to fabricate that's. That's just i'm not like i'mgonna like flipping a whip, her to...

...start slapping people. You need opissuch a faker yeah. No, no! I'm not doing that yeah and i'm not hearingthat and i don't know. Maybe the answer is like i don't know counsellors for ifyou're leading people in to worship on a day at a day out basis, you knowbecause i feel like those people, maybe we need to be praying for them now. I know that you have donecollaborations, maybe not with some of the names that i mentioned, but you'vedone collaborations for some of your songs. You've had aaron cole and who was the other guy, the otherwrapper, oh manny man, any race, i love collaborations. I think i grewup in the generation of like you'd, hear a rap song and then the next monthit's remix and t pains in there. You know whatever i love just always theremake. The remix was always better than the original. Have you thought ofother collaborations, maybe not remixes, but anybody out there that you wouldlove to collab with it is yeah tons. It is, i think, it's just the nature of thechristian music industry. The business part like what is going on with thischristian music industry. Why choose that over what seems to be like aneasier route for you with your family business yeah? So so choosing choosingmusic over that, because you know music was still pretty far fetched it's farfast for anybody who chooses that. The reason that i picked it overengineering was because, in my mind i went this isengineering. The thing i can do whenever- and this is i've got a littlebit of heat from what i've done with music and- and this is probably my onlychance to give this a shot, and so i i beg the lord to tell mehonestly as like god, you need to tell me youneed to give me a burning, bush or a wet fleece, and tell me that i'msupposed to be a musician, i'm guessing engineer, i'm guessing you didn't getbot, i didn't get anything really didn't get anything, and so it really just came down to i like them. Both. This is a thing thati can do probably any time, and music is a thing that i probably this is myonly real chance. I'm going to do this for a bit and see if it works and evenwhen i'm at james but you're early, i was continually setting milestones oflike if this doesn't happen in this period of time. This much momentum thati need to go, i'm still moving the rightdirection that i'm going to quit. I love that and i probably did fifteen ofthose. I still are you hitting those mile stones yeah. I hit them all,that's awesome. They were small. It wasn't like. I need to be just inbeeper. It was always like a i need to be able to book the in play.This many shows, and i need to figure out how to getthis many people to look at this thing i just released, ieven buy it. I just need to make sure that people are seeing if i can makesure people are seeing it then this many this tangible, many then okay,then maybe this is a thing that i can do. Okay, that sort of thing, so it wasjust like i'll go into music. If music doesn't work out, then you always havea backup plan but music. What if i do any more right, i think i might beunhired at this point. I've got a full sleeve, tattooing, dreads m. I can cutthe dreads, but this this this doesn't wash off real well, and i also need acalculator to do very simple, math. Okay, so well, music, it is yeah, and you know, just like our past guessjaren. I feel like when i see your content when i hear your music, it justblows my mind and for any of our listeners who are still listening tosomebody that maybe they don't know if you haven't heard david's music likecheck it out, it's phenomenal because in the christian world, like you weresaying earlier, it does tend to follow a certain pattern, and so myself, as achristian who wants to always look for that artist, that's a little different.Maybe has music that you're, not anticipating from a christian artist.When i like started diving into your music, it was a breath of fresh air. Itwas like such a relateth and i mean you're putting out such good content,and it just blows my mind like this: guy should have like ten times listener ship or you know whatever. Whyam i not hearing this guy on the radio more, but maybe that's more of myproblem than well. I don't know that's probably a bit of bove the virus yeahwe're both to take equal responsibility. Maybe maybe this podcast episode willbe the thing they just resurrexit the i don't know yourcareers, not ted. It doesn't need to be resurrected. Resurrect my career thankso bring you from the ashes from the pits of gana back intojerusalem. Okay, so we talked a lot about you in the music world, but whois david done...

...off of the song off of the stageoutside of the music world? I i talked about this a time be earlier, but i'mactively like putting effort into trying to bethe same. You know a big part of this world isbranding hmm, it's like what is my brand tell people and and probably tothe detriment of my career. I have actively tried to not do that, i'm not trying to brand. I still do toa certain extent you can't get away from that, but a big part of my brandis this is me this is how i am and not the greatest showman song. Oh, this is me got it. I thought youwere saying you're, not the greatest showman. I now was about to tell youyou are number one: that's a ittle finger, joke yeah so like who is david dona off ofof social media and music? I think i'm the same, but i'm a bad person to askhmm, because i'm i'm trying to be me and i'mnot sure how successful i am at it. If you ask my team, like my manager oryou know, labeled looking agents, they would be able to answer more correctlythan i can. Okay, what you got chance, ives you are to very different youree, intelligent, very sand. Mymusic is not extremely the help o saying you look like an idiot on socialmedia, euny goo, making jokes, but also very ulster strong on you, a yeah yeah, and i think i think, a bigportion of the reason that is, if i was going to wait in here, i think a bigportion. The reason that that is what why i don't necessarily do it on socialmedia is because you also won't hear me monologuing, which is what social media is when i have conversations about thingsthat are intellectual or semi intellectual, it's always because there's anotherindividual involved. So so i'm not i'm not a pastor, not a preacher, i'mterrible at it. I like, i can't think my way through anything when i'mmonologuing, when i'm talking to somebody that ends up happening insocial media is a monologue platform is what i would say that would be my my. Idon't know if it's defense, but that's i would go. I think. That's probably. Why is i also don't monologue andsocial media is monolog, yeah vise. I try to start one for likea hot minute. I did one episode and then give up what i was going to do is get a bunchof my music friends and like bring them in and then we talk about whatever andthen we'd play, one of their songs together and mark mark shields came in,and then it was like six months of me being like hey buddy you coming overtonight to do the thing and then the dude s coming up would be like. Ohcan't come typical musician fashion. Hmm- and i was like all right- this isthis: is it gonna happen man? I don't that i'm glad we don't hear this greatyeah. Now they the the non flaky ones. We can just have them come here andwe'll make it happen and we'll just always have you on deck to come in anddo a music collab with them and then we'll get the album going circle of life yeah. That would be pretty incredible:yea, fun, yeah! I knew that you were a very intelligent dude when, like everytwentieth word, you would say. While we were hanging out, i will you probablythought: what's this guy doing on his phone all the time i was looking up thewords you were saying. I was like this guy. I don't feel like. I have thatcrazy of a vocabulary. Well, maybe you were just making up sound. The soundsyou were saying like is just trying to be extra impressive, yeah, maybe you'rejust reading signs that he saw, and i was like wow where that word come fromor may or speaking african and i was like, oh totally, don't know it a beenokay, let's go into somebody who, i think side note african is not alanguage swaye it why he is a language. They speak, motmot bamba bemba, bembain a in zambia. It makes me think of...

...the bread, bimbo yeah yeah, okay, move it on. You were talking about how and i get it like asking you thequestion: who are you it's hard to define yourself? It's probably easierto ask the people close to you. I would say one of those people being lean yourlife as well, if yeah, so if she was here, do you think thatshe could speak on that? I think i think yeah. I think she could.Okay, let's bring her in right now. Here we go lean. No i'm just kidding.She is here. She is. She looks just like james don. Do bad flattery, thoughmy gosh? What just happened there? We cannot take james in public. Talking toher was lean in your life when you releasethe song not soon. No, no, she was not. Where was helen, when that song wasbeing written, i was dating a girl what i was dating a girl. What does yourgirlfriend think of this song? I don't think i've ever had agirlfriend that was real thrilled about it. No it's not soon, as basically asong for people haven't heard, it is basically a song of me declaring thatgetting married is a thing that sounds like a good deal, but i'm probably notgoing to do it any time in the liar future. A big portion of the reason is becausei got five brothers and sisters and all of them got married, pretty young andstarted pumping out children very fast, and so my parents were very nicely pushy, especially when iwas younger about like time to do it, and so i think, a part, a part of thatsong was christian society right. A big portion of christian society is, youknow you graduate from college and then you get married or get married as fastas you can, and you should get marre real quick. So was it a rebellion against thatstigma or was it a rebellion against? You see all these kids and you see thehavoc thor, then the chaos there creating and you're like it was last at because i think at thatpoint my life i had, i had less friends who had got married early withmarriages that failed right. I do have songs about that, butthis is not one of them. This was like this is like early me. All of myfriends are getting married and me going what right. Oh, my g is really fast and now this is yourlife forever. So what was your initial question? So iwas just explaining the song and i lost my a tdy are. I was just wonderingwhere lean was in that song, but it sounds like she was probably off living her own life i'll connected tolane. Had you known lane at that point? No! No! No! This way before my wife, i will say this is meanly dated for areally long time. Okay, for the same probably fundamental reason that iwrote the song and the fundamental reason i wrote the song is, is that ihave a natural adversity to accepting responsibility m for most of my life. Ihave gone way out of my way to make sure that i am not solely responsiblefor stuff, and i know that sounds weird, because we talk about africa and onwant other things: yeah glore drug me to africa kind of become why i wasbeing drug for the same reasons, because i'm adverse to responsibilitywere you like kicking and screaming on the plane going over there? Basically,and then you got there like all right, i'm here and then no, i kicked andscreen the whole time. I was there too wow interesting now, really i'm beingbeing melodramatic yeah for sure, but we did it for a really long time, for the same reason is that, like i wasin the zone of like this is great like this is fun. This is awesome. I'menjoying this. I, like my own space, i'm own tooth brush. You got your owntooth brush. We like when it's convenient, hang out, which it was allthe time, but why would we like? We go to thenext place and this is gone and there's a new thing, and the new thing requiresme to like pay for your stuff and you pay for mineand we're going to mix all that. Like there's all of these question marks ofnow we're making decisions on behalf of each other. That sounds awful. I wantit so nig a decision on behalf of me, i want to make my own decisions right. Soit's same ball bark as the song is. Why me and my wife day five years, four and a half beforewe got married by the way we got married and engaged and married in liketwo months after four and a half years? Oh so it was like engagement straightinto marriage and- and i got to know i was the hash tag for the engagementlean with it rock with it. When you put the rock on lane no or was it done anddone, this is pg thirteen, so you might have dated this out, but go in myphonee. My wife's name is now this too...

...much. I don't tell you now. We want toknow this. Okay, her name is lean. The girl who's been done, dun, that's a free. I was i'm glad it's thatand not a lean piece of meat. I need to change it. I am so sorry lean. Oh my gosh! No,don't change it! No, but it was quick. That's actually a fun story. Would youlike to hear it wait how you guys met now, how we got married? Oh, how yougot married yeah, it's four and a half years and four actually like four: it'sa change and we're sitting on the back porch of my house, like ten o'clock inthe morning and she'd come over and and we're sitting on the back porch and inthe course of us talking she sort of goes hey. Is this going anywhere, and isaid i said: yeah yeah well we're going to get marriedsome day and she goes oh were like when i needto have some sort of time scale and i was like okay, so i opened up my phone. I looked in mycalendar and the only real hole i had for morethan like two weeks was in like two months because of touring because atouring- and so i was like what if we got married in like two months andshe's like yeah, that works. Hmm, then i go well. Do you know when you wouldto get married she's from ireland? She goes. I want to get mary back inireland. I was like okay in ireland, we got married in northern irland, that's amazing, and then she goes it isi've got a video actu. I let you see it, you guys, won't see it but i'll. Letyou see it: okay, cool, it's really great. It's awesome, the listenersagain really jealous and i love it or so i'll just hold my phone up and youcan take that see. Yea and she's like okay and then we satever about ten seconds and i go well. I guess we're engaged and shegoes yeah and i go. Do you want to ring or yeah yeah? I want ring and i was like.Oh do you know what kind or anything like do you know anything, and she goesyeah wit this one and she had it on her phone ready. Itwas her batiste background. No, she like pulled it up, a type the himpulled it up. I want this one. I was like all right, like poor girl. Has iton her background of her phone well? Well, then, you like all right here,obviously hand you my credit card and you can. He is buy it and so she's likeall right, so she buys it and then we sit there for a couple minutes moreyeah wait for it. I get it all wrong. You get to you, make it worse or better,depending on your perspective. Okay, so she goes. One buys the ring she boughtall the internet, like you, don't have to you know to buy it. She like new, aring size, so he literally put it in it's going to come in in like fourweeks or something like that: okay, yeah, because going in person, that'skind of humiliating, hey, i'm here to buy my engagement right, yeah, yeah,now internet sous, he doesn't have the ring yet, but she has ordered it andthen we sit there for couple more minutes and i go well. I can call myand call my mom, and so i call my mom and then i tell her and she gets myolder sister on the phone. We've got: five siblings, so older sister and momon the phone they're like tell us the story. We want to hear the story. Howdid you do it and i was like well, i was sitting on the back porch and itjust came up in conversation and we picked a date and they go. What what do you mean? You didn't make itlike a special thing and i was like really like: that's not really whatwe're doing they were like you have to shoot like you, don't want to tell thatstory for the rest of your life, and i was like no that's that's a fine storyfor me to tell for the rest of my life, and here you are telling it yeah, andso they gilte me into, and i guilt trip, that's too much. They talkme into making a thing of it, so i was like all right, so i went to walmart. You should have just stud when youriten a place to make it romantic. I went to walmart and yeah exactly and i bought like,like a twenty five dollar giant, fake diamond old man ring had likefifty diamonds on it, and i bought that and i have a buddy who's, avideographer, it's nashvill, sons of them and- and i was like hey- here's he's what ithink we're going to do. We gonna go out to this abandoned air field, whichis kind of connected to a park that we always went to, and i want you to flythis ring in on the drone and that's how we're going to get her that's cool,and so i tell len i'm like a couple days later, i'm, like hey ben my friend,been need some like bural stock footage to sell to people for commercials andhe needs you and need to like go out and ride on a skateboard around thisair field and she's like no not doing it. I was like why not she goes asmy god. I know what to do. I a andlike a fifteen minutes later, i'm like...

...i promise you'll enjoy it i'll, giveyou a hundred dollars if you hate it and she's like a hundred bucks, allright, you're trying to twist her arm, because you know and she's also makinga feel. She knows that, even if she enjoys it just be like that was stupidand to give a hundred. But so we go to the air field and we're like ridingaround on this skateboard and he's flying the drone all over the place and there's a video of that there s areally great video. So if him filming with the throne and then i like secondarily asked her to marry me inlike a proper brom com, so it away that's a good video, that's precious! So that's how we fakegot engaged after we unromantically got gauged on my back porch. Okay, i feel, like you, gave some women somebad ideas to just anything their husband or fiance or boyfriend wantsthem to do they just say you know. If you give me a hundred dollars, if idon't like it i'll do it and then they just always say i didn't like that. Listen great advice right! Even i am anenabler. So if you were listening and you need to be enabled you're welcome,okay, so to kind of get on your vocabulary level, i'm going to use theword courtship. What did you feel like? You did well inyour courtship with lean, and what do you feel like? Maybe you should havedone a little differently. Looking back, i mean it's complicated, because people are different m and especiallywith me and my wife, we tend to everything, is sort of lightand and every opportunity is an opportunity to have a good time, and soi think until we were forced- and this is very much if anybody visits ananagram, i'm an aniara seven and my wife is a two same. Your wife, a twoare your fine. I don't have a wife, fiance fiance's at three, but i'm aseven she's three three and a seven three and seven was the ceo man. Wemake a perfect ten you're ready to have kids dad joking. What was it homa? Oh, what we did as adating couple yeah. I think the main thing that i'd probably do more of is is be intentional about working througheach other's baggage. Hmm, because dating, is this anything allthe stuff you see on tv is bs all especially the garbage tv shows,the bachelor. The bachelor is the worst thing to happen to how people viewrelationships ever that being said, delightful to watch hot garbage, it is, i love garbage tvand the whole time, i'm watching them going. This is the worst thing. I'veever seen all right, we're going to watch one more. That is how i watch garbage tv, but it is absolute crap and it's andit's portraying love and the most negative way ever oh yeah, and so what i would say is this: isthat baggage? I'm sorry dating is it's coming to back it not synonyms datingis, should be anyone who's dating. It should be an evaluation process for the both ofyou to figure out what your other person's baggage is anddeciding whether or not you're willing to carry it for the rest of your life.Hmm, that's deep! That's all dating should be you and me are dating devo for software,but second off we decide what each other's baggage is and then we decideif we're willing to carry it for the rest of our lives. So what is aconversation like that? Not necessarily look like bit like howdo you jump into that with your significant other, i mean. Are yousitting down knees to knees now looking into each other's eyes? I mean part,sometimes hey on her baggage yeah. The hard thing about baggage is thatusually people don't realize what their baggage is? Oh a hundred percent andbut- and i feel like, if you call them out on it- hey bab, here's some of yourbaggage. They don't like that! No, no with us. I think i think a big portionof it was me making sure that my wife was lookingat my baggage. I think that was a piece of it is. I would i wish that i wouldhave done more unto, let my wife see my baggage m, which you know it's a whole lot easierto evaluate other people than yourselves yeah. What what kind of baggage are wetalking here? I mean a big portion of it is that i am incredibly selfcentered, hmm right, you can tell that from most of the things i've beentalking about today, i i've very highly...

...prized my own fill in the blank y. U hthis whole interviews about you exactly! I got it en so, for my wife. Can i can i ask you being self centerednot just like putting that label on you or anything, but like? I also strugglewith that in some ways, is there ever a time when you're in a room and if youfeel like somebody else is maybe more talented than you maybe funnier thanyou and you just like have jealousy towards that person, and it almostshuts you down really you're. Okay was sharing thespotlight yeah, a big part of the way that i'm selfcentered, and i think it's probably if we're talking about like socially,especially a big part of the reason that the way that i am self centered is, i enjoy things more when every one isdoing them. So a big part of what i'm trying to do is go. Let's all do thisand i'm going to shepherd it and be at the head if i need to, but if james ispopping, i have no problem being like just so it's because that's what i wantright, that's what i enjoy the most. You want people to be participators. Ido not. I don't like to monologue. I don't want people to listen to me. Talki don't like to. I don't like to talk for no reason. What i want to do isenjoy everything and the way that i enjoy things. The most is, ifeverybody's popping off and having a good time, if you're having people overto a barbecue and you've, got like game set up corn hole, all kinds of thingsand there's like people that are participating in like the activitiesyou've set up. Does that bother you? No, not at all you're cool with them, justi'm cool with them doing it, but on my radar they don't exist. I know that'sso harsh, but they don't exist on my radar if they're not choosing toparticipate. I forget that they're there, so so i'm not i'm not trying tomake people participate. I'm trying to i'm tryingto negotiate the participators so that we can have the best time doingwhatever it is together makes sense i'm. So i want to talk about this real quickfirst, because you brought something up yeah. This is this is a tangent. This is a theory. I'm working on that.I believe to be true. I think controversial here comes, i like it. Ithink that humans do not have the capacity to do anything but be selfish. We can do nothing but be selfish. Iexplain before you freak out: we can either do things selfishly ourown way or we can do selfishly things god's way and that's all we get. Theentire bible is a giant book of reasons why we should choose god over us now.The best example to give to this is the parable of the the servant at the table. If you want to be at the head seat andthe table, what should you do? According to bible, you should servepeople right if you want to be first put yourself last, a hundred percentand it's taken for granted that everybody wants to be first and i think that's the entire book ofthe bible. It's going, you can either do things your own way, so fishly,because you think it's best for you or you can do your your. You can do thingsselfishly god's way, because it's best for you, everyone does what's in theirbest interest a heroin addict as he's putting the needle in his arm doesn'tgo. This is the worst. I don't know why i'm doing this in the moment he hasconvinced himself. This is the best thing for me right now and regretremorse all that can come later, but in the moment that i do it, i haveconvinced myself. This is the best thing for me, and that is what destruction looks likedestruction looks like doing your own thing. Your way doing god's thing, foryou is the only other way to function. Another bottle is i do things because ilove god, and i reject that only because love is the most ambiguous termin the human language. All you got to do is watch the bachelor to realizethat love no longer has meaning is a thing that everybody says and thinksthey understand, and no one is saying the same thing as a motiving factor.I'm still a little foggy on this, and whether or not this is true or not, so this is going to be live forever. So,but i'll probably get this at some point, but love is a motivating factor. Idon't currently believe to exist. Love is love, is a thing that happens onceyou make a choice. You love because you are you, don't love because you feel m love is a choice and an action. It'snot a motivator. It is something that...

...happens after you make the decision, soyou can either choose to do things god's way which leads to life. You canchoose to serve other people because it's best for you either when itdoesn't feel like it, which it rarely ever does when you serve people. In myexperience, some people love it. My wife loves it, but serving people feelsit. Why would i do that? I want to sit at the front of the table. We'll sit atthe at the at the bottom. Why would i sit the bottom want to sit the frontbecause that's god's way so do you believe that god, your father, actuallyhas your best interest in mind that he wants the best for you or not. If youbelieve that he does then serving other people is best for you and that's whyyou should do it it's great for other people. Yes, you'll get fulfillmentfrom it. Yes, you may never see why it's the best thing, but do you trustthat it is it's your way or god's way? You can do your way selfish or you cando god's way. Selfish and those are the only two options. I'm still working onthat a little bit. I'm not a hundred percent sure that i am all on boardwith it, but i think i think i believe it could be true. No, i mean thatbrings up so many questions, and i know that like for me personally in my life,i've had a lot of non believers, come to me and say: debo you're, just achristian, because you know that equals heaven, and that makes you way worse ofa person than any of us that don't believe because you're literally tryingto get the golden ticket the willie wanka ticket the pass into heaven- andi mean i've- wrestled with all that stuff and i've come to a conclusionwhere i'm good, i'm fine. I mean because the whole morality thing like.If you take away heaven as the reward, then you take god out of the equation,and then you can't really have morality without god anyway, so it's like. Ialso don't believe that heaven is the reward right. I believe that i've livethe reward, is life? Are men? That's it that includes heaven. Yeah, your song,heave or kingdom is literally about that. Yeah. That is, that is exactlyright, is that life is found when you walk with jesus and you're going to dothat a lot more in heaven, but this is the only chance you get to do it byfaith. You get this eighty year period to walk with jesus by faith and findlife here and now jesus doesn't talk about having a ton. He does talk aboutit, but mostly when he speaks of the kingdom of haven he's speaking aboutthe earth yeah, he mostly talks about. What's going to happen while you'rehere not the hereafter. Now he does talk about the hereafter and i thinkit's important, but we make it a lot more important than jesus did becauseeverybody's concerned about what happens to us when we die. Jesus isconcerned about that too, but he was mostly concerned with how we live, and i mean that in the physical termand in the metaphysical term, finding life and not choosing death, i've got atattoo giant on my hip. You seen that one haven't you it's my favorite person,the verse in the bible due to ronie thirty nineteen. Look it up. That isthe bible in whole. In my opinion, is that verse?Okay? Well, i think we started talking about your sorry. That was a tangent. Ithink it just went off on a it was a soap box. No, it's fine! I mean that'sdefinitely stuff that you know i want to dive into. But all of this surprisesme about you because, like you're, just so like kind of an independent guygoing through life, not really needing this, you know female attention. I starteddoing music because i was in a youth event and i had a bunch of girlfriendsin youth group and some random do got up on stage and started playing theguitar and i was like this is all right and i looked around at all my femalefriends and they were all going and that's when i knew the lord was callingme to do music. It's like girls, perspective, slow, most rums, yourperspective. Things are normal, speeding or so confused, and thenyou're like this is it. I do want to be that guy yeah, let them drool over me.I wonder how many guitars mel guitarist or guitars. For that reason i thinkit's a hundred percent and if it's anything less than i think we have someliars so true, but, like my my thought when i heard your song second grade,which personally might be my favorite song of years number one as a christianartist, you putting that on your record. That has like nothing to do with godloved that, because i don't think christian artistsdo that enough. Number two. It does well. I disagree with that, but kay,but not specifically, keep going keep it yeah not as over. The top is likeusing the same. I don't know the pastor feric wastalking about like using the same thirty words for every christian song,and it was like none of those words were those thirty words. You know yeah,oh my god. Okay, second reason, being you literally go through yourgirlfriend saying grade, i literally had my girlfriend and second grade popup in my head, your girlfriend when you're a teenager, my high schoolgirlfriend passive in my head and then you're talking about your girlfriendwhen you're in your es, i literally can relate to that because that's where iam right now engaged and i'm going...

...through this and i'm also reading wild at heart and when he talksabout the whole like you're constantly man is constantly going after thatgolden hair beauty that and doing whatever. For it and like to me, one ofthe biggest truths in that book was when he talked about how eve fell intotemptation from the devil. But man fell into temptation from woman and when you say you know, if there'sany man out there who's playing guitar and it's not because of a woman, it's alie like it makes so much sense like we're all because of adam, like we havethat connection to woman, where it's like we're always going to fall yeah.But- and you know i don't know, but you and lean seem very happy. I don't feellike she's pulling you down anyway. No, no, i don't, i think, she's absolutelylifted me up. That is not to say that it has not been really terrible at times yeah. What'sthe hardest part so far, here's the thing is we got married andthen accidentally got pregnant mediately. Apparently i am very potent it's actually wild that we got pregnantonce much less multiple times and and marriage marriage is especially for someone like me. It is aa really intensive uphill climb to learn how to serve when somebody else is yourresponsibility and i say lens my responsibility and-and i was hers right- it's my i think marriage is that way and so and solearning how to roommates is easy right. You do roommates and you're doing yourown thing and you're sharing a few things, but it's passive everybody'ssort of on the same page. It's not always easy, but it's easier, butmarriage. It's now. I said this a little bit earlier. It's now we'remaking decisions on behalf of each other. Our lives are now intertwined,and that is painful. I think it's a little less painful. Ifyou don't already have your life the way you have it right when, if you getmarried early, how are you when you got married? Twenty, that's pretty old toostill, not pretty old, but it's old der. Do you get married when you're twenty,two or twenty one? Like my little brother? Did you? Don't you don't dolife anyway? You've done college and you've done high school and then nowyou're doing life another place. So it's a little bit less of adjustment,but for a thirty something to get married, you very much have your thing. The waythat you have your thing right and you make decisions the way you makedecisions, and then you introduce somebody else. Who also has that andnow you have to do it together and there's this rub, and it wasn't thatbig of a deal we got married. But then we had a kid and that's like ten x, because all of those things arehighlighted in you know the most loud annoying highlighter in the world andtheir full front of just straight in your face. This is roads. It was rod yeah my firstborn- and that was your first- that was you got her pregnant and rose- was thefirst baby roses. First, baby yeah rose rose first kind of yeah wait. What do you mean kind of? Oh?Well? We actually we actually got pregnant on the wedding night and on axent andand my wife miscarried. So that's not super public but sorry to bring that up.Miscarried and then and then rhodes was a couple months later same sort ofstory, not the miscarry part, but are we talking about? I forgot i wasderailed now, you're fine. Does that miscarriage? How much does that weighon you and lean? Let's so on me and lean, i think i think it was a lotheavier for lane. Is me i'm not carrying a child. It didn't feel realto me to be frank with you. Even roads didn't feel real until he came out mand when i'm holding in my one wholly craft right, there's a this differenceand and then really heavy paternal instincts didn't kick in for me until four or five months, probably when hestopped just being a sack of flesh that pooped and cried in heat right when herealized that he existed, and so did i that was a. I was like a light switch.I was pretty miserable up until then, which i feel like is such a goodanalogy for our relationship with god and the moment that we finally realize that he is there. I'm sure he probably has that samefeeling like because you're, probably like joy like oh my gosh, like o my son,recognizes me, and he sees me yeah. It...

...was more like it was pretty prolonged misery. It waspretty prolonged misery where i was going. I've ruined my life. Hmm, mylife is over. This is my new existence and i hate it. So i kind of feel likefour months of just having a ferby with less hair, yeah she's, all freedom gone.That's the biggest thing. It's not like! Technically what you do with a kid.Technically you with kids, whatever you just, don't sleep that much you cleanthe diapers, but i no longer my life no longer belonged to me and it alreadydidn't because my wife had it, but that was like on a tiny scale and then a kidcomes along and now my entire world now revolves around this thing, and i amresentful of its existence. This too much i'm getting too much, but isabsolutely how i was i'm resentful at this thing's existence and then themoment he became a cognizant human being to where he realized. He existedis when i went oh, this is totally worth it. This iscompletely worth o. I see why people keep doing this. It's see why peoplekeep doing this. Hmm, so does god do that? I don't i've, never thought aboutthat. Maybe yeah i mean it sounds like youradvertisements went from cruise lining with lane to just disney cruise linewith the kids. It's probably i don't think i get that analogy. May general lando think so now that youguys are married, what's been the toughest aspect now since you've become married, has itbeen the kids or is it something different? Yes to both of those there? There is no untangling, it's allone garbled mess when you get married, so is it the kids, yes and its otherthings and all of those things are lumped together and they become issuesand problems, because people have issues and problems mean lean av issuesand problems. The main thing that that, from my perspective, i'd love to knowwhat my wife said about this she'd probably get mad, but half of thethings i'm saying what did you say what she said about this like this? Is thenewly wed game like she was here. If she was here listening, i bet she wouldbe like it was great. That's usually what she does. I love ye like a yeah.It was great the main thing for me, and this is a little bit to another littledeparture. But the main thing for me that was difficult was, i am highly sensitive to powerplays. We talked about this yesterday at tiny bit highly sensitive. It's theonly thing on this planet that makes me see red is someoneasserting authority over me that i have not conceded authority to so you know not just an authority issue.It's when it's not conceded to it's, both right, i've conceded authority topolicemen and i'm still incredibly nervous every time, i'm round apoliceman. Every time i can't be driving and not get nervous. I can'twalk up next to one and it's not because i think they're bad people,it's, because i'm aware that this person can ruin my life if they'rehaving a bad day m. This person has the power to do anything to me, and i can'tdo anything about it, not that they're going to do it, buti'm aware that that power structure exists, and so they make meuncomfortable. So it's all authorities, i've found it a thorny problem, since iwas dining you can as my parents, but with my wife, that became a really big deal for asection of time in our marriage and it's way more complicated than i'mabout to make it. But there was there was inner workings of who's the boss, and i want to not playthat game. Adamantly my entire life, i'm a seven right, an eagan, again game.I flee conflict. I a hundred percent flee if it starts to pop up somebody'splaying power games. I just don't i'm just going to be around that person-that's that's my go to, but if we're going to play power games, if i have toplay, then i'm going to freaking win them. Hmm. If i'm going to play i'mgoing to win, i'm not going to play unless i'm going to win i'm and i'mgoing to go for the jugular every time, and so i can't run for my wife, so westart kind of going the power game route and i exacerbated this terriblecycle of cats and dogs at each other's throatsof who gets to decide and what i want and what my wife wantedwas for us to decide which is not a power game. I want us to decide and toagree while, while making concessions foreach other, like that's that's the way the lord made us to function withoutpower, games right or power plays is another way to say going to makeconcessions and serve each other power games are the opposite of serving powergames. Are i'm more important than you, and so you will for me, that's whatpower games are it's all about? Winning...

...it's all about winning it is, it is allabout winning and and ego. Yeah sounds like politics honestly, you know yeah.We won't jump into that. A yes was there any thing, tugging through roads and rocket and then going throughthis power struggle like was there ever a time where you felt like this isn'tgoing to work? No, no! It never came to that point. No, not even close. The breaking points for me were like semi depression. I hate my life, it never as popular in my brain this.This is not going to be the thing. Divorce was never an option. No, i wasjust this is this is this? Is my new existence was the low points the horseis not a no. No chance was never going to do that. Peshwas, the kid involved. I don't even know i can't it's neverentered my mind. That was going to happen. That's never been a thing, yeah yeah. So going back to what you saidabout politics- and i know i was i skipped over it, but it seems likethere was something there yeah do you do you have. I think we can i onthat we can almost go back to the internet conversation we had earlier.Okay, i think the two are related when it comes to politics. I think that is like a more of ashining example of how people behave on the internet that it's. The bestexample is that you click on a political post. Reallyalmost anything, and you look at the comment section nobody's concerned about finding truth-nobody's conserved about pazobin, an issue. Nobody cares. No all people areinterested in is winning or losing at the expense of anything. That's there.They don't even really know if they're right or not, they just want to be onthe right side. Yeah and politics is that to the extreme we we saw on theinternet and in politicians that the only thing they're interested in it'snot interested in helping people and making the best form of government andand doing the best thing with finances. I they're interested in making the spanhappen and then winning whatever that is winning the next election. Winningthis argument, winning the pr battle, winning the redefinition of a word winning andlosing is all anybody's can wants to do any more, which is bob. Is that a power game? I don't knowthere is always me yeah, probably, but it is at the detriment of everyone. When you stop being concerned, iwinning and losing and things that aren't a win, lose there's no win lose there is there istruth, and then there is not there is there is help and then there is hurt,and then there is a giant chasm of in between those two things and so what politics? What i want tohave happen is for us alt to start. If politicians would do this, i think itwould be incredibly helpful if they would just start by going. We want the best. We want things to happen for people thebest way. Let's talk o health care. We want health care to be the best. It canbe. Let's all start there, we want it to be the best we can be. We want tohelp and then start their arguing, but theydon't actually care about that. They don't care about health care being thebest it can be. What they care about is winning i want to win. I don't want to lose andi'll do anything i can to win. I don't care whether or not people actuallyhave good health care and that's exactly how humans are on the internet.I don't know about real life, because i try not to do to politicalconversations irl same, but on the internet. That is how they are as well. They don't care about the issue. Theyjust want to be make sure they're on the right side, make sure they're onthe right team make sure they have the the viewpoint that is most correct andand and and the internet is also a place where social consequences don'thappen. This is what the world looks likewithout consequences is the internet. It is the nastiest place on the planet,because people can hide behind their keyboards and see whatever they wantand then go not me. Well, i do have to look somebody in theeye and tell them the worst thing that they've ever heard in their life.That's a really hard thing that you kind of have to be a terrible person tobe able to do that, but behind a keyboard and no problem, i feel liketwo thousand and twenty though, for the first time i did see consequences onthe internet, because people are blocking each other. People are unfriending each other and it was live s...

...internet consequences. Well i mean, i think it's not the realworld man, but i saw it go into the workspace where people literallywouldn't have conversations yeah it takes over it leaks over which is like.Is it worth it? But you said, like the turn team like we got to be on theright team, and i wonder if, like maybe it's because by partisan and it's itseems very much like a sport. Oh i'm patriots fan, i'm colts fan and i'mwearing this jersey ear where in that jersey and that- and i wonder if itjust to americans, feels like another sport like all right every four yearswe get another olympics kind of like. I don't think i'm think most people havethought through enough to go this. Another sport or even realize whatwhat's happening. I don't think people are intentionally doing this. I thinkit's natural to people to go, win, lose and, and they've been prodded to behere, and so people are prodded to be win. Lose by whomever media is a goodone, the more wind loose we have it media the more money they make moreclicks. They have right. Yeah is that we've been proddedin to win, lose and and it's to the detriment of everyone on the in theunited states for sure- and i feel like that, that is in a there- is so much hate going on in thatworld and and that's why i don't even like to delve into that that much onthis show- because i just like gives me the not not a good feel so what thewillies yeah so like. I want to get out of that veryquickly and get into like something that feels like love. I want to trysomething with you. I don't know how on board you are with it. We have thiscamera here, it's looking right at you. I would like for you to look right intoit. I want you to. I want to give you as much time as you need, okay and for our listeners there are females.Maybe this is their chance to hear hey. This is how my man should feel about meand for her guys. Maybe they can hear. This is how i should feel about my ownor this, how i should talk to her. I want you to act like this. Camera islane, and i want you to just let your heartflood out. You had no idea. This was coming noidea. Also. What i would do with my wife is look her in the eye like thisand then i would say something like this: you stunk up the bathroom, mysweetheart. How could you do such a thing? That would be the extent of myexpression of love. My wife is actually a words person. So usually, what i sayto my wife is: you are incredible mother and you are doing an incrediblejob with our kids and with our house, and i am super grateful and thankfulfor what you're doing that made me so uncomfortable it's themost uncomfortable i ever been in an interview at this moment my orbits asweating. It makes me uncomfortable to say it to my wife. I noticed like thisis not your wife is a camera and you couldn't do it. You were a glance andat james your glance at at me, because i was uncomfortable my eyes a littlestinging. Why is that? Why? Because i get it tolike, i can, i can say great things about my fiance in any way, except forto her face that's hard, i mean i can do it, but man like you, said sweatypits and you just get clamming and you're like. Why is that souncomfortable for us to just sit down, and i because we feel it it'suncomfortable for me to do it across the board, to my wife, to not to mywife, it's a little more uncomfortable. I think, because i don't value words asmuch. I m she does. My wife is very she's, a valuing she's, a word valuerwore a refornation there. It is words of african shit, love languages, that'sa yeah, a big portion of her love language, and so i make i make aneffort to do it, but in the same breath i internally roll my eyes because wordsare wind: what movies at never radiator words a wind. I have seen gladiator a great moviewit's, a wind, that's not gladiator! I can't remember o gis yeah. It's justalways so interesting that i feel like any any couple. I talk to your love. Language is one thing. Herlove language is something totally different. Yeah you're, really good asshowing the way you like to be loved, she's, really good at everything causeshe's a woman, and then it just makes us as men. Look bad yeah, we're notgood at words in general now, but there are. There are some guys this one jamesis a huge words. Guy yeah he's very good with it. Actually, actually, yourwife is not james actually taught me a lot about the value of words, notbecause he was saying them to me, because i was that was weird and say tome, but watching its effect when he talked to other people and said thingsthat were wildly encouraging that i felt like were really weird. He'd say iwont to be like t and then i'd watch.

Other people respond to be like holycrap. That was a hit was a whole thing. Hmm, it's a man if i had somebody askedme to describe you. That is mostly. What i would talk aboutis your ability, your ability to prop people up with your words prettyastounding. I am not great at that, but yet youhave to be great at that, because you're, a lyricist, you literally putwords into music that takes people into a place of like oh wow. I relate tothat year. M, that's good like, but i'm not being sentimental and and i'm not,and i'm not attempting to do anything to anyone. I'm mostly talking aboutmyself, i'm really good at talking about myself like that is my music. Isi go? Here's what i have learned about myself and god and myself and otherpeople. That is what i do with my music, because i relay my life in the things i'mlearning on a platform of artistic creativity. So in one word for thosethat haven't checked out all of david den's albums, you would sum up all yourmusic is just selfishness. Oh yeah! Maybe i should be the next ecrase fish.Now, shell fish people will be allergic. No, if that's what your music is about,i dig it. I'm loving it. Maybe i just resonate with that. I don't know so iwant to take one of your lyrics, who was from one of your songs, called singloud when a quote it says, there's a world full of so many voices that havenever been heard. Who exactly are those voices who areyou talking about? Oh, i think what i was trying to say when i was writingthat song i mentioned this a minute ago inpassing. Is the baggage conversation we'll go backto there is? I think that there is an internalvoice, that is, that is almost unknown to theuser. That is speaking about itself. Is the worst explanation i've ever donein my life. It is, it is people, people being true and honest about their ownselves and a naked blatant open way and and if they are able to do that, ifyou are able to see reality of yourself, which is a very difficult thing to do.But if you were able to see the reality of yourself- and that is the first stepto wisdom- no thyself know thyself. That is a very its hardest in the world.We are master deceivers self deceivers people would much rather live as the ae vitar on the internet than who they are in real life. Why? Because theywould rather be the avatar on the internet, but that's not who they are.They are something else that they may be don't like, so i'd rather pretendthan live in the world that i pretend than i would be in the world that idon't like. That's real yeah yeah, i mean similar to that. I feel. Like you know,the voices that aren't being heard is a big reason why we wanted to start thiswhole young mary christian thing, james, came to me and said: hey man. I justheard this whole entire presentation about fostercare orphans and how there's this big problem,there's this big need and all of the content out there right now to helpthose people is just strictly saying the facts. It's literally like if youlook up any company or any organization, that'strying to help orphans. Their whole thing is just hey we're here to helpporpess. If you need us call us look us up online, and so he said, let's makesome kind of podcast that can help. They can have a mission that alsocreate really good content, and i'm like yeah i'm on board. Let's do it,and so that's what we're trying to do we're trying to give a voice to thosethat made me don't have one that's not being heard and we're literally havinga conversation with a guy who works for you know this company that that's allthey do and i'm new to this world. So maybe i slipped up and used languagethat sentive and i talked about like we're going to eliminate this problemlike no more foster care system he's a oh there's always going to be. You knowa problem, there's always going to be like sin in the world. It's alwaysgoing to bring new kids into the foster care system, and i just sit back and iwas like when i hear words like impossible. You know and and maybe i'llget a little cheesy here, but you know you take impossible break it apart.It's i'm possible, i'm standing for. I am anything's possible with the great iam i and i thought, okay, if i'm...

...looking to buy a house like me and myfiance right now we're trying to buy a house and right now the housing marketlike demand is everywhere supply, not so much, and so i'm like what, if weflipped that, because right now, it's the opposite with the foster caresystem. What, if we flipped down n what if every kid was in it for ever home, and there was literally a line waitingso that as soon as a kid gets into the foster care system, we're calling upthe next family, hey we've got so and so ready for you and it's just as soonas there's a kid gone as soon as there's a kid god, and i'm like whatabout that, and he heard it and he's just kind of like okay, never thought about that. I'm like andthat's where we need to start, and i know that for our listeners, you know some of them have that ontheir heart, gods put it on their heart, maybe they're thinking about fostering,maybe they're thinking about adopting, and they just don't know what to do.They don't know who to get a hold of we've tried to make it very easy. You know we have this number. You cantext the word freedom to the number, eight three three, three: seven: zeroone, six one zero and just by texting that it's not going to like immediatelyhave a kid show up to your doorstep: you're not going to immediately becomeyou know, foster care, parent or you're, going to be adopting a kid, but we'vekind of got three different things that you can do and will havesomebody just get a hold of. You have a conversation with you just figure outwhere you are in this journey, and you know you can either participate andpray with families that are already fostering. We call that rap round care, so maybethat just means you and a small group at your church. Maybe you just beenreading a book, maybe you just been hanging out and now you have a you wanta mission. Now you have a serving mission to where you're actually likecaring for a family. Maybe you want to just you know, learn about it. Maybeyou just want to do some research figure out. What is this? What arethose next steps that i could do and then the last thing would actually beto participate, and you know maybe you do want to take that journey and take akid in. So that's what we're trying toaccomplish her and and we're hoping that yeah and we're incredible andwe're hoping that you know any of those families whetherthey take any of those. You know three different routes that you know we cankind of have like a hashtag foster freedom, so that we can see because we would love to be able toconnect those families, and we don't know you know who's actually doing this,but you know like we'll, be checking instagram, seeing okay, the robinsonfamily. They hash tag fostered freedom. We now can see them. We know that thatfamily, you know, has adopted, you know whatever the kid is and and so that wecan. You know, help that family out. Oh, i love that. I think that that fostering and adopting is the most valuable thing that anyone cando. I think the main reason is is because,when you serve someone you usually do it for a pretty segment period of timeis meals on wheels. I'm going to go once aweek for an hour and a half and that's great. It is great. It's still servingwhen you adopt when you faster adopt specifically, but both are in the samerealm. It is a life long act of service right. This is this is aperson that i am intertwining with my own existence for their benefit and foryours selfish. On god's behalf, your your intertwining, your existences irrevocably, and that is one of the greatest acts ofservice you could possibly do. I think i think the lord has a special place inhis heart for people who choose to foster and adopt yeah. That would be a really hard thingto do. Incredibly difficult you're going to do it. Aren't you i think thatis awesome. Yeah yeah we have. I would have a really hardtime. The main thing i'm concerned about is i don't really like kids m and i was a little worried aboutwhether or not i would like my kids. I was it was more than a little. I was alot worried about whether or not i would like my kids. I don't enjoy beingaround kids for the most part, i'm fine with them being around until they startscreaming, and then i'm going to leave that room, i'm no get away from him, and so there's a there's. A piece of methere's probably too much for this, but there's a piece of me that is concernedthat if we adopted a kid that i would not have the same amount of paternall instinctstowards that adopted kid, as i would to...

...my own flesh and blood children,secombe of that and also worried about my biological childrenand especially if we adopted, i, i think we'd probably mean we like to dosomeone who's a little older yeah, and so i don't know if we will, i don'twant to yeah. My wife does and i do not. I do notit's a lot having biological, so i cannot fathom bringing another onein and then doing it all over with somebody that we adopted. That seemslike a ton. I cannot envision going, i'm going to do that. I will, if thelord makes me so this needs to be another africa. It was wit, i i thinkso or he needs to do something to my heart to change my perspective on it.It's not my perspective. I understand the value. I cannot think of a betterthing to do with my life than adopt a child. I just don't want to adamantly.Don't want to that sounds terrible. It sounds like it would be incredible.Marriage is incredible, but there was a section of it that was sucked havingkids. There are parts of it at suck. My old life is dead because i have kidsnow and i have a new life that i really like, but i also really liked my oldlife it's gone, and so it's that sort of thing is thati understand the value. I think it wouldbe really great. I'm ecstatic when other people do it, and i adamantly donot want to do it myself, and i think that our message is mostly to those whoalready have the calling and they just don't know what to do with that whereto go. So i that's. Why we're trying to give him that and also the fact that you know there's some people other thathave even given it a thought and there? This is just kind of like a newrevelation to them and we're not asking them to dive in head. Go pray about it.I know i don't learn about the course of this conversation. I am feelingpressured no, i would dropped myself because i'vebeen talking it up, and so now i'm going with you think so great about. Iwant you to do it and i'm going wait. A l a little bit of it david. All we askyou to do is go back and listen. You are pressuring me, that's not what i'msaying. I don't think you two are pressuring me. I am feeling pressurebecause of the words that are coming out of my own mouth. I think that if you knew the fourhundred thousand kids in america that about the same number as the churchesin america, so all we need is one family per church. One family per church would completelyput us at zero and then start flipping that to where there's a waiting list were, i hope, yeah we're not pressuringyou, but just go back. Listen to this episode and hear yourself talk. I thinkwe got something there, but o you started talking about your kids andyour family. We've already talked about your marriage with the lane. What aboutjust parenting things that i know you were homeschooled? Do you plan on also home schooling, roads and rocket yeah? I washome school until i was thirteen and we will. We will homeschool them for acouple of years me and lean are currently locked in into battle overhow many years it's actually going to be hm. She wants to homeschool them allthe way up. I would like for them to have some social skills, so i want themto go to school, maybe in like junior high, but okay just and when you putthem into school. Are you wanting to do private school? Are you going to dopublic school montessori? I would like to not pay for private school. Okay.That being said, schools in nashville are a hot mess, absolute dog popo. So i don't i don't know we have. Wehave a. We have a ten month old and a three month old. So i'm really thinkingabout it. This point right. I'm mostly thinking about how we're going to pottytrain them yeah, which has been a mess. Do you feel like that? You beinghomeschooled until you were thirteen affected you in any way yeah? I think ithink it was. It was incredibly valuable because of me learning how to learn. Okay, and ithink it was incredibly detrimental because i did not really learn how toengage with people that i either wasn't around all the time orrelated to me until for probably, i was probably a little stunted until college.I'd say that there is drawbacks to home schooling on the social front and thereas drawbacks to education on the non home schooling front, and thatdepends on your mother as well beat dub or whoever is home schooling. Itdepends on u on her proficiency and...

...being able to teach, but she is veryinvested, usually in helping her own children, be educated, so they're pros and cons to both sides.Okay and then with your job currently. Well, i guess i shouldn't say currentlybecause with cove, there's not a lot of touring, but your job typicallyinvolves a lot of touring and going around. How do you balance out that,with intentionality with your boys like the time that you actually get to spinwith them is or anything it's just like? This? Is me and dead time? Yeah, i'mnot a good person to ask, because i really haven't had to deal with that. You know ovid has been happening rocket.My second born has he's ten months old, so he's born in ovid super cool name.Thank you that rocket power back in the ittehad. I don't know any of the wordsa song better, learn it. I name rugget he's actually not named. As of that,what is he named after nothing? Really, we were going to name we we thought wewere going to have a girl and so yeah it was going to be our girl name, andthen we found out as a boy and like we're in the boy and then he was bornand we went. We saw a name was his name of the girl's name that we had, and sothat's why it's racket we like that name. That is a cool name. Okay, sothen, in the future, do you have any plans for like? I want this to befather's son? This is our thing, camping, skateboarding, oh, i wouldlove for to be sports. Okay. I hope my kids don't do music, listen, it's adorable little kidconcerts, but i cannot think of a more severe form of punishment than thangoing to a cello concert of my five year old kid like it's. How is that daddy yeah? Ithat good son ben, you really hear you, i god love! You dad, never said anything about how goodi was so com contrast that, with like p, we football there's, no comparison,yeah it'd be so much more fun to be a dad or bb football than somebodyplaying the trombone when they're six. So i hope that they're in to sports i'mtrying to push them that direction. That being said, my first born is anabsolute unit. He is huge he's, like he's the ninety nine point. Ninepercent illin weight and he is stacked and he has no interest in anythingsports related. He wants to sing dance and then a rocket roget looks like hemight be a little bit more athletically inclined kan he's in likethe eighth percentile and length and dwelt casanaan wait. So i think thelord's playing a bractice joke on me not much to work with there, but heyyeah, okay, it'll be fun. So if there's father son side, it's too early brow, ilike most of it's, been in coved. Roads was one and a half when cobi started orsomething like that, and so i asked me in like two or three years. I do notcurrently have any plans, but i would like for that to be the cases thatthey're in a sports- and i be that would be fun for me, but whateverthey're into i'm going. No. My life is now revolves around mychildren and my wife hm, and that's if you don't take that away from thisconversation, that means that unset it enough it does revolve around them.It's jesus, my wife and my kids and that's my life and then in the music ithrow in and seasoning on top of all of that anything that you want to dodifferently with them than what your dad did withyou. I want to do a lot of the same things. Okay, i think my parents aretwo of the most incredible people in the planet. I do. I do want my kids to be around more people that don't like them. Igrew up in in midland, texas and and a lot of my life was especially home.Schooling. Out of my life was other home schoolers, who were very similarto the dun family, and so i want my kids to be around people that aren't like them more, but a lot of the same stuff that myparents do. What do you mean? Oh, i don't know. I haven't thought aboutthat at time. I mostly want to do what my parents did.I think they did a really great job choices. What he asked me, what aresome of the things that they did really well choices and personalresponsibility, which is hilarious because of a dodger personalresponsibility, not that big of a deal? No, that's that's a lie. Persopolis abig deal for me because i had the authority thing, one of the main thingsthat my father did, that was really instrumental was...

...cut me loose when i was eighteen. I was very muchmiddle finger to my father and and mother. All the way through was very angry that some one hadauthority over me. It was my parents, and so when it was time to go tocollege a lot of people, a lot of people tend to keep their claws in their kids.Usually financially, i m n keep paying for your school, but you better do good,or else we're going to take it away. Pas did not do that to me. My dad gaveme some money and said you can spend this on school or you can do whateveryou want, you're, not getting any money ever again and and then he kicked me out the door,and i went to my own thing and to be honest with you, i told my dad thisrecently and he keeps saying it over and over again, so i think it might beimpactful if they had not done that if they had kept their claws in me andi'm going to do this in my boys, if they kept their claws in me, then i would have tanked my own life to spite them. Iwould have gone to school and i would have burned my own existence downbecause it's not mine, stairs, i'm going to burn their existence down justdespite them. So i think that saved me and also jesus became mine because theylet go very difficult for my mother and thebest thing the er happened to me was my parents were linquis ng control of mewhen i went off to school hard pat about relinquishing control. Is thatyou're no longer in control? I could have chosen to become a smack head orwhatever jumped off the. Even you know the edge of insanity and done my own dolives out on the street. I could have done all of those things that are allviable options, but the illusion of parental control after somebody turnseighteen is, for whatever reason, really incredibly appealing to people,and so them doing that. For me, i think it's a good example of of them preparing us to take control of alllives and understand the value of consequences tobig part of it as well. They did that with. It was a big deal with me and they did it child dependent. So they did. It was my older brotherand they did it with they did all three of my brothers. I haven't thought aboutthat. They did not do that with my sisters, but they offered to and my sisters declined m, so there was no offer for us. It wasthe boot and it was an offer for my sisters. Well we're running down to time heretoday. Last thing i have for you: have you seen the movie? What happened tomonday, it's on netflix doesn't matter if youreally seen it, but the whole story is the world has come to a place where youcan only have one child per family and like china yep and thisfamily they have seven kids septuplets and they name them after each day ofthe week and there's a scene yeah so easing the preview. I think so eachchild can go out one day a week and the reason why i bring this up is that inthe movie, the one child sunday, the they're, having a conversation withher and they say- but you have to have hope, you're the believer in the family-and they don't say it necessarily, but i believe that's because that's theonly child that could go to church every sunday so like that was the thebeliever in the group church. You know once a week now the other ones ever gotto go to church, and my worry is- and i see this a lot is that ourculture in our christian society is all i do is go to church once a week andthen the other six days of the week. Look like those other six people, those other sixgirls where they don't. They don't have the belief they don't have the religion.So is there anything practial e, a good practical advicethat you have for anyone, maybe just for the church or for someone in thechurch that they can use towards? Not that case where religion doesn't just becomereligion on sunday, where every day looks like. What's what what that girlsunday, you know yeah. I think that i think changing perspective. Of ofchoosing life is religion. Take religion out the perspective ofchoosing life is that jesus is acting asking you to live your life in such away. That's best for you, and so choosing life has nothing to dowith going to church on sunday. That's that's like a american britsh creation is one day a week thingright: we've created it to you now be...

...able to do our check list or pay forthe week the other six days, but but jesus is about us choosing life.So changing your perspective of i can choose myself and destruction or i canchoose myself by a god and and all of that other stuff is amood point. You know you go to church, you don't go to church, you choose life so that you can live, stop choosingdeath. It's up, choosing your own way, because your own way leads todestruction choose god's way because it's best for you, you want to be thefirst of the table. Put yourself at the last serve other people live for life here on this planet,bring heaven to earth. Hmm amazing! I think we're on the timetoday david for our listeners. What are some ways that they can get some moreof dols, mr? How can they find you? I mean let anywhere that you findanyone tap him. My name on the internet and first off it'll pop up with brucewillis from unbreakable, hmm, because his name is david, don superhero yeah,and then it will be me next. Okay, so it's congle shadow spot. I mean itoutside of like your spotify and like apple music, like music stuff, is allof your social media. Just at david dunn, it's david t done m at my socialmedia. Is david t done david done, wat's take on darn, okay! Well, that'sall the time we have. Thank you so much! This is awesome. This is great. I had agood time all right. Man tell next time all right y'all. We hope you loved thatconversation here, young mary christian. We are on a mission to see a gospelcentered home made available for every single child in the foster care system.There are four hundred thousand kids in the fossier system and there are fourhundred tousand churches in america y'all. The church can solve thisproblem. If you want to join us on this mission text, the word freedom to eightthry, three, three, seven, oh one, six one! Oh another thing you can do tohelp us grow. The reach of this podcast is to leave a rating in apple podcast.It's super simple, just go to the show's page scroll down and give us arating for this show deboat s a good rating. I typically just count thefingers on my hand, and then i click that many stars all right. So we're nottelling you to give us a five star rating, but for the love of everythingholy. It would help us tone if you wit and give us a rating. I guess for thatguy that has four fingers just add one. Yes, you don't even have to leave a reviewbecause, let's be real, that takes too long just go to apple fied gas andleave us a rating yes, but seriously, though, if you do nothing else at leasttext the word freedom to eight three, three, three: seven, oh one, six one oeight three, three, three, seven o one and six one out. He the three threeseven out one: six, one: oh th, three, seven one: six one h.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (9)