@nobigdyl - Could Your 1st Year of Marriage Survive This? w/ nobigdyl.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Transparency will set you free.

In this episode of Young Married Christian, host D-Bo sits down with Christian rapper and Derek Minor mentee, Dylan Phillips, A.K.A. nobigdyl. Dyl riffs on his writing process, dealing with racism and bullying as a kid, and his journey to success in and beyond an often overlooked genre.

Plus, he and his wife Chelsea fill us in on…

- Finding a balance between the hustle and a healthy marriage.

- Living up to the values that Christians often portray on social media.

- Overcoming infidelity in a public way.

- The importance of finding a truly supportive church and community.

Links to find nobigdyl. and the rest of the indie tribe.:

https://www.youtube.com/user/nobigdyllie

https://open.spotify.com/artist/1sPm31qmcbk9EFoRCS8eRl

https://music.apple.com/us/artist/indie-tribe/1143614467

Welcome back to young married Christian,where Christian influencers talk about marriage and parenting, we're on amission here at Younger Christian to see a Gospel Center at home, madeavailable for every single child in the foster care system, and in this episode,Devo talks to no big deal and it was the exact Tomasi. It was a big dealbecause I was super excited I was Fan bowing out and it was so cool to seehim kind of tear back the curtain of the Christian hip, hop world and kindof give me a behind the scenes. Look and honestly you guys a behind scenes,look into what that looks like yeah. They are was also a part of theinterview where dill and his wife talked about church hurt and theytalked about the power of community and how their church has just been anexceptional job of building commentating about building community.Not only did you talk about a Sola career, they talked about the communityof Indie tribe and the branding behind it. It was fantastic yeah and I thinkthe most incredible part of this entire interview may be the most incrediblepart of any interview we've done so far was at the end of of this episode,you're going to hear dill and his wife talked about inned bly vulnerableseason in their marriage. It was yeah. It was incredible. The fact that theywere both willing to talk about such a such a vulnerable moment in theirmarriage had happened in the first year of their marriage. So definitely stickaround to the very end of the episode, because you're going to want to hearthat story, things got deep, so hold on to your prayer beat Susan because weare young, married Rita. You know who you're dealing with top five. This is. This is a reallyhard question for somebody who, like really studies, hip, hop and is likeall the way into it to make a definitive list, there's ones that youcan say for cloud. Oh two, pocks of my top five. Whatever man he's, not youdon't listen around. No, I love to pot, but I'm just sayingI think people will put certain names in their topfive. It's not, and it's not their personal taste, it's just what'sexpected or whatever. I would say so, all time, you're asking all timetop five. No, no particular order. Just the top fire since Adam was wrappingout the animal names in the garden of Eden, wow wow, all right. So I would say Dan. This is hard Jazy for sure Liwanfor sure Drake for sure cane, and this is where it gets hard. This isalways where it is hard there's, so many that you don't want to leave out.I'm just gonna, say Kandry cool right now, so no Christian rappers. So ifyou're I mean no Christian rappers at my top five and all the Christianrappers that I talked to very few extremely you have a Christian rapper in their top five Ido have. I do have one friend that has a Christian rapper in their top five,but is it blasphemis for me to say that Ja, my favorite Jaz album was the onethat he did with Lincoln Park. It's so that is an excellent, album M, but youropinion is incorrect. Yes, your opinion is objectively incorrect.It's your opinion is factually incorrect. That is the same vocabularythat I hear from Ashley. Often, okay, Sunday morning after church you andChelsea you're leaving you don't have a whole lot of time. Yeah you're hungryyou got to grab lunch yeah. I got through a drive through it's yourchoice, she's, giving you the choice. Where are you going for a drive throughM or just something quick? You didn't think this was going to bethat heart of a question I mean I like Taco Bell anything in particular about Taco Bell. You don't eat at any fast foodrestaurats do you're like do you just name the first one that you thought ofwe do, but it I don't think we would do a fat. I don't think we would gothrough a drive through after church. The situation you set up was not a partof our rhythm, so it was so. My brain was like. I don't know what to do withthis. This input isn't working. You know what I mean like: If we were goingto eat after church on Sunday it would it would not be a drive through mostlikely and if F it was, you know I just...

...probably wouldn't be okay. What wouldyou what is that, because her church on S, like lunch time, Sunday he's making an non commit on you guysyou guys just fast on Sundays? Now we held fast on Sundays. Okay, onlyonly new moons and you know, festival of booths and yeah that type of stuff, as lay timenice, yeah. Okay. I asked that because like for me, like I'm Kipper, Huh Yeah,I'm Kipper Y, A. I don't think of that. You say it so I I Capur I have. I have like a connection to a fast foodrest rat just recently up an here in Orlando White Castle, because, like myfather like when I would hang out with him, which was you know not too oftenlike, I would get to spend quality time with him and we'd always go to whitecastle. So it has like that, like I have that connection to my childhoodyeah and that so I was wondering like do you have anything? Apparently it'snot fast food restaurants, but like do you have something in your life thatyou have a connection to yeah childhood that it's like. Maybe it's not goodlike you go back, Oh yeah. I have that because, like I understand whitecastles trash yeah, but I had I have that for sure. Okay, so we. What isthat for you? Okay! Well First, I want to say that, like like Taco Bell,McDonald's are like our most frequented fast food restaurants for sure, becausekind of when you're in the mood for trash, likethose are the two trash things. But you the thing you're talking about withlike nostalgia and an emotional connection for me, would be brown sent round sugar, cinnamon, poptarts and pizza lunchibles, even though I knowlike it's crappy, especially the piece of legible, like that one, that's wild,like an adult being like. I got to have a piece of lunchibles right now, butthat's the same thing that you're talking about that's the one for me. Isthere a story behind these two things? I think it's just it's not like, as maybe zero Din and focused as yours,but it's just the childhood thing like it's. Just a childhood nostalgia, goodtimes, pizza lunchibles. You know yeah yeah, because I think I like when Ihear your music and you're talking about things like Richard Scary, yeah.I had to introduce to my fiance the other day at Barnes and noble as wewere, reading children's books to each other yeah. But you talk about Burnsingbears you talk yet dragon ball, Ze Yeah! You got a whole song of a Barney like ayou reference, a lot of things that, like I'm like. Oh, we live the samechildhood right right. Is that because you're like? Are you trying to relateto these s? Kids like me that you think are going to be listen to your music,or are you trying to go back to like a time in your life that you really lovelike? Why all these, like childlike cartoon references, yeah? Well, I I try not to try that much in music,like so whatever is like just naturally coming out of my head in my heart.That's what's going to like be in the lyrics. If, if I'm trying, then I'mgoing to try on like the marketing side and stuff, but with the music I kind ofjust let it like, you know, let it come out, but as far as the references,that's, that is how my mind works. That's how like conversations with me like with me and my friends orwhatever that's how it works. Those connections. My brain is always makingparallels and allegories and and just all differenttypes of connections between things. So even if I'm just like walking downthe street you're out in the world whatever, like those connections happen,you know and music has actually been like anoutlet where I can make those connections and verbalize them and putthem out into the world, and it's like people like it and it's revered andit's like unique and in conversations and stuff growing up, then it's morelike. Why is he like this? You know what I mean like before it was like like what is he talking about? Why is he soexcited about this? Why is he noting out about this thing, but when it's inthe music people are like? How do you think of that? How are thoseconnections you know? So it's like you know it's that thing of like the stuff you maybe were likeridiculed for or yeah, like kind of an outcast forbecoming like the thing of the thing about you. Thatis attractive. You know so, where you bullis bully, doesn't I wasbullied as a kid you could probably tell by how I was just talking about it,but I was. I was bullied pretty heavily...

...in in middle school, which I meanmiddle school kind of sucks. For everybody it'snobody's like Yo middle school is fire like I don't I'm so sure some peoplewere but m. most people aren't like I just was. I could go back to middleschool and just do middle school over and over again you know it's like, but yeah. I was, for I mean mostly for being like a Chubbykid and then, but actually it was for being like it was for being like toosmart or, like speaking weird war. Yeah I mean it was. It was centeraround that too, but I think that I think the thing that hurt the most was the like t e, the Chubby bullying, like theweight bullying that type of stuff the other stuff was like it kind of even at the time it was like. I don'treally care that you all think I'm weird for like liking. All this nerdy stuff weretalking about that. But, like the appearance thing was like that one kindof stuck with me, you know so yeah I mean now with social media. I feel,like those kids I mean, like I don't know if you've seen Bo Burnham's eighthgrade movie yeah and it just like focuses inon like how much self image man matters to these middle school,kids and high schoolers to- and I mean you, I feel like your call back tothose things. Might I don't know if it's just a way to like say like I'mover it now like? I can, I can freely say pigot and my rap, like I'm coolwith it, and I know the other night, you were talking about how you drew theline in the sand between being a nick kid, yeah and being like, I be likeMickey Mouse get out of my face. I'm not missing with like I'm all about therug rides, I'm all about the Hay, Arnold Yeah even dug you know I watchsome dug to do you see it. Why haven't you thrown a wrap over the dug beat? I I did like an unreleased song over what is it it's like Shumma on my Banjo?Can you remember that yeah hitting on the street like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah?Okay, okay, so so you've done it, but we just did here there's a lot of songsthat I that is, you know as an artist you make and never come out now. So sowhat made nick gain your allegiance enough to make that song and to drawthe line to say and say no Disney? I honestly probably early like super early in my childhood.Probably my mom felt like it was the most appropriate, like kids station, just thinking abouthow how my mom was like raised me and stuff. Probably she was like. Oh thisis the kids are maybe the least root on this. This is the least crude humor,there's no like blood or whatever. So nickelodeon is probably what shelike kind of put in front of me, and then it just like went from there,because it also had like Milone, also had nick junior and mom had a day careof one point, so it probably was like all right, nicolodeons cool you gotthese like developmental, shows on Nick Junior and then it goes into somethingthat she could get behind. But because youknow, Cartoon Network Carton Network has some heat like for sure, likecarton now, work shows also were very fire, but mom wasn't into like some of the like more adult jokes that they would like slip in. I thinkcartoon network had like sometimes they would have reruns of like Renton stimpy or something, and Ithink, Cowan chicken and mom was not with that, like she wasn'twith the humor that was on that type of stuff and then adult swim. She was like.Oh, if you watch it too later at the wrong time, then a dole swim comes on,so she wasn't with that. So I think Ithink it probably started with her and then I just got super into like youknow: rug, Ras, Hang, arnold dug rocket power, I mean it was. It was definitely like agolden age and then all the like live action shows where they were just like sliming people all the time you know kids competing and like double there and legends of the HiddenTemple. I was that that's what it was called: Righ late, hite, typal yeah andOrlando Yeah. So, Oh yeah, that's right, so you're going to definitely be ableto fact check at this stuff yeah. I think that a we fact checkedthat you were on the show. Filitosa...

...yeah was I you were on double there.Two Thousand Right! Well, you fact checked it. So I'm asking you yeah tellhow was that? So I guess the fact shack is yes, Imean the fact. The does yes, okay Al! I just want it. I just want to think tome. Yes, the blue bubble beams was the nameof our team. I named I named both teams and they were the red flame doors andwe were the blue bubble, beams alliteration on point yeah and see thething is they they? Let me name the teams because nobody else wanted tolike step up and, like you know, when they're, when the host is asking you know backstage like Oh,what shut the names bee or whatever everybody's, like Oh we're going to act.I I'm like I'm not going to act, shy, I'm going to name us, and not only am I going to name us, I'mgoing to name them. The like, I named us so that we are water, pokemon and their firepoking on. They were done from the Baginni and they didn't even sayanything. We know they just let it Hap in and with. Then we beat them and ofcourse we beat them because they were the red flame towers and we were theblue bubble beans if they knew what they were doing, they would have beenlike no we're not going to be we're, not gonna, be the red flame thors andthen be the blue bubble veeves. You know it was a test it was like. Arethey worthy? Are they worthy competitors of us? That was the test me naming them. Itwas over. It was over before it started. They're like no, we want to be thegrand green razor leaves yeah, exactly see, that's what theyshould have done. That is, if they would have done that, then I would havebeen like guys. We need to surfer the wagons we got to come up. We got tocome up with a game plan, because these are formidable opponents, but as soonas they accepted that name, I was like we got. This is the bay we got to get.We got a call professor oak E H and figure this out. Okay. So when you'reon the show they're like did you, I mean everybody, every kid wants to getslime. Did you get slimed? Yes, I didn't get like over the head slimed.My parents did. I. My challenge was to like get a flag out of this. This bigbanana that was filled with yellow slime, so I like, like I, stuck my arms in there and likehad to reach for it and all that, but my my mom had like a soda machine thingthat she had to like. No, actually that was my that was mydad. I think yeah my dad had the son machine think because he fell and thatwas like pouring stuff on him. Mom. Oh yeah momhad like a desktop computer, big structure and she had to jump onthe on the computer keys to get a flag, and I think, at the very end we were likeabout to run out of time. I think I was going to go down like a a chocolate slide into something, butlike we ran out of time, but yeah did you was not involved. Yes,yes, this was a an important part of my childhood was like going on the show,but what what we want just shifted everything. I won anintensity, four praise, lid changing and in ten n sixtyfour, a translucent TV. You remember those like they made everythingtranslucent at the time, like computers, TVs all that stuff yeah, but notpoliticians. I yes correct so boom had the TV and the Nintendo sistyFord. That's how I was like cool. I mean we won like a trip to Vermont. Wewon like a keyboard, a boogie board. Whole bunch of stuff didn't care onceit once then the tentes happened. That's all I cared about. You knowwe'll have to have you back, because I'm sure I was disappointed to go touniversity yesterday and not see any nickelodeon stuff, but in a coupleyears we're going to have super nintendo world here in in Orlando, soyou'll be able to live you're in sixty four dream: THAT'S CRAZY! There Yeah!Now I was wondering if they were going to kind of like replace Nickeloy studioswith something else is that is it going to be universal is doing it so or brandnew park. Oh, but just nintendo doing it it's a lot: okay, yeah! So they'regoing to have you doing it, you're being cryptic. It's your venture! Lookout when I'm not in here hosting you my other job, I mean it's, no big deal!Okay! I can't really speak about it right now. Man, it's amazing! Now were you living here in Floridayeah. I lived in winter haven, okay,...

...because you weren't born in Florida. No,I were born in Tennessee correct. So, like I'm curious kind of, I guess yourorigin story and like kind of playing back like the s for you, because I meanlike right now, the MC you has taken over media and like origin stories areall the rave yeah so like. If Marvel is like Kevin, figy took your life and sayall right. We're going to play back deals childhood like S, yeah life like what was going on with all thosemoves. I mean California Florida Tse. Who knows where else right, yeah. Wedon't have enough time for my origin story. It's so convoluted. It would bethe greatest comic ever the Kevin. What's his name, KevinGeinig, Kevin Figy. That was too deep for me. I didn't know who that was, andthey probably could see it. On my face, nothing happened in my brain when yousaid that he's over the MC Ou, okay got it all right. So yeah I lived in nine states before Iwas nine years old, California, Texas, Kentucky Illinois,Florida, New York and then Tennessee. That was all Tennessee was when I wasnine like it was all those in the Tennessee. So I've lived like in every region.I've spent significant time in every region except the North West, and I think that was like really bigfor my development too. It's probably also why I make so many like connections and just be my experience is like extremelyvaried from like a very young age but yeah. So obviously I wasliving in those states for like eight months to eighteen months. Youknow some of those states, it wasn't a long time. I was only nine when I gotto Tennessee, so I think winter haven was probably you know when you're that young, like like one year, is one seventh of your life.So it's a long time. You know it's like it felt like a long time. I rememberall my friends, I remember like the school everything from you know,auditioning for double there and all that stuff, but I think it probably wasonly yeah somewhere between nine months twelve months. Maybe you know maybe like sixteen months orsomething like that, but yeah, I think all of those like I, especially since I was so young.I had different developmental stages and each of those states made friendsin each of those states and kind of took and just had like this. This, like collage of a childhood, youknow of like memories and experiences, to kind of pull from and yeah. I really think. That's that's whymy brain, like makes connections between things that people might notsee, connections to and yeah there's something to that likemoving around always being the new kid. My mom always framed all of it as like, like each move as avery cool like opportunity and always framed it very, very in a very positive light. So it was always like anadventure. It was never was never upset about it or like scaredabout it or like sad about leaving friends. She was verygood at like. Oh, you don't have to stop being friends and we're going tomake new friends we're going to like go to a new place. It's going to be like anew adventure and so yeah. I got good at it's like a giftand a curse, because I got good at leaving and kind of, not feeling that sadness, you know is very easy forme even now to travel if I had to move away like from even my like very best friends. Ofcourse, I'd be sad. I'm a human, but I am a human. I promise, but it wouldn't be like as hard for me as Ithink the average person you know. I would be like we're going to see himagain because that's another thing mom would like we would always take trips and wheneverwe take sure if we see the people that you know, we've built theserelationships with, even if it was like...

...years before or whatever my momactually just came through like the other week and there they live in Arizona. Now theyhaven't lived here in like ten years and she came to see us and then her. Mygrandparents went down to like the area that I grew up in in Tennessee in beforcounty, to see like all the friends that they had made there. So, like that's just kind of like a reoccurringrhythm in my life, so it kind of like affects it affects a lot actually, theonly time that the only time that I was upset that wewere moving was from New York to Tennessee. That was the only move, andit was because we had never well. We had lived, we had lived in thesouth, but not I was too young to like know any type of like history like any type of racial tension or like history, about the south andbut but in New York. I was old enough so, like you know, that was like Oh we're,moving again that wasn't that big a deal but then when he said we were moving toTennessee. That was a big deal. It was a big deal for my mom to is a big. Ithink it probably was as big a deal to me, because Icould see how like mom reacted. She did not want to live in south. She did. Shespecifically did not want to raise like her sons in the south, and so shewas kind of like scared and upset about that. Try to put on a brave face, but definitely scared of that reality forsure afraid of what exactly just racialinequalities yeah. So I mean they're that you know mom and dad born and raised. InCalifornia, there mom's parents going back three generations and dad's two generations like in California, so they're likerooted there, you know and the west coast is especially the bay areawhereever from very diverse and just doesn't have, like I mean, has very little slavery, history and a moremild, Jim Crow history than the south. I mean ithappened everywhere, but south is a whole different, ball game.You know so, and you know stuff has I mean, as we know now, but Ithink you know at the time that we were growing up. A lot of people were well.I guess a lot of people still deny it now, but a lot of people were veryuneducated and denied that stuff was still going on. I mean in the s therewere still people being drug behind trucks in Mississippi and still being lynched, and I mean police, Rutali y profiling. This stuff happens whether the camerasare there or not. I think that you know having everybody having accessto high quality cameras, not only high quality cameras, but then Internetaccess to immediately be able to upload and share without gate keepers. You know without having to run to a newstation and being like. I caught this on my camcorder or I caught this on mydigital camera. We need you to run a story going to the newspaper. I havethis information and it's just I'm going to post this right now. You knowwhat I mean, and so I think that those barriers have come down and it's allowed P. it's allowed thatstuff to kind of, especially with the new genera new generations coming up like that's what has put it in themainstream new cycle, not that it's just now happening, but that that access to kind of, like the like the gates to accountability, havebeen lowered because people like anybody can upload video and stuff.Like that, which is now a new problem, because people can chop it screw it,however, they want to do it and put it out there for everyone to view it yeahand it's like I no longer. Is it...

...whether or not you're saying it it ishow believable is this is yeah and I for you, like, okay, you're movingaround and like it sounds like your family, gloves the city, but I'mguessing you're moving to these places because of your dad's job yeah his workright now to go into so like fast forward your story up to like afterhigh school post high school. You were telling me about some of your workright, some of the jobs that you did and you were working with stuff and Ifeel, like God, was laying the tracks for you to become a rapper right right,but he had you teaching kids right. Yes, he did organization called southernword shout out southern word in Nashville largest spoken, word spoken, word, poetry, Organization forthe youth in the South East shout out southern word, DOT, Org southern worddo ward. Who are you hoping goes to that website? Really anybody, but especially peoplein the in, like the Tennessee area,students, even students that aren't in that area, because it can. I willdirect you to like the programs in your area, but essentially southern word isjust man, it's a lot of things, but it's. It is essentially using spoken. Word, poetry,Song, Writing Song Production Hip, hop a lot of different interdisciplinaryarts to educate people in underserved communities andalso in in all communities, but there's just a heart for the underservedcommunities and students who have been overlooked, for you know different reasons. So youknow a lot of students that have been given like people have given up on them.I've seen them really come into their own and blossom and succeed in large part to southern word and the specific poetmentors that they had been connected to within the organization. So yeah, whenI was working there, what a normal day would look like is sometimes we would go to a high schoolin the area and we would embed in an English class for an agreed upon amount of timeduring the semester, and we would help we would work with the teacher to help the students understand literarydevices and different concepts within usually English language, language, arts reading. Sometimes, if the if the school hadlike an actual poetry class- and yes, some of the most rewarding moments forme were kids who they felt like they didn't understand,you know, metaphor, simile, alliteration, illusion whatever theliterary device may be, and it's because the curriculum for you know inner city Nashville iscalling for them to learn these concepts through Emily Dickinson andWalt Whitman, and there's no connection to these kids culture or their lives orwhat's going on around them, hasn't you know yeah like it's just not it's not relatable, youknow, and so I could go in there and be like you guys, actually already know.All of these literary devices and they're. Looking at me, like you'recrazy, like they've already given up on the test to they're like we know thatwe're done we're not going to, we can't do that and that's that's the effect oflike when the curriculum just completely misses on relatable andculture is like it makes. The kids feel like it's an implicit statement that they're stupid because they're notconnected to these artists or these concepts or these writers. You know- and I, like you guys alreadyunderstanding what you know. What's your favorite hip hop song, what's yourfavorite hit hop part and that's where I would always start, and you know theysay somebody they think I don't know you know young boy, you don't know no hot youngboy. I like, I know your ways cool. You know he's going crazy on youtube rightnow. You know young boy, you know and then all right. What's your favoritesong? What's your favorite leary from it, you know they tell me I'm like okayboom. That's that's metaphor that, similarly, this is illusion. This iswhat he's alluding to you know and they're like you're lying. I'm like! NoI'm, like you already know it, like you, probably write you probably write stuffin the lunch room that has all of these literary devicess and then break itdown to them.

Show them some songs. They know themand break down. The different literate devices show him songs that I've donebreak down the literary devices and it was just a wet. I saw so much likeconfidence, so much understanding and, of course, the you know, the stuff thatthe school wants is raise test scores and all that andsouthern were the stats of southern word. Has Our incredible speaks forourself? So then, where hot work but yeah man and I and it's more thanthat to you know we hosted like poetry, slams all throughout the citiesor all throughout the city, and we kind of had like a circuit thatwas set up like a sport season. So you know: There's a slam at this schooland everybody comes and presents the stuff they've been working on on in ourdifferent workshops and then the finalists from that go tothis slam at you know at this theater or at this school, and then you knowthere's one and we actually were in five different counties. So it's likeit's like county against county and then it all culminates into state ofthe word, which would be at one of the universities in Nashville, like in oneof their auditoriums or theories, which is just like a really cool thing. Forthose students, something they haven't experienced. The mayor would come out, Poe Lory, it would come out. You knowall these people to come support the kids and they go up there and and perform their pieces. And then you know, there's a winner and,and somebody is crown like the youth poet Lore at a Nashville and then thatwould culminate into this nationwide thing called brave new voices in DC andthat's like kind of the the winners and youth pollois from different organizations all over thecountry come there and you know meet the president. Just I mean it'slike a really clothing, yeah yeah, it's amazing. Like yeah, I mean if I was akid in the Nashville area, yeah it's Nashville area only I mean it's notonly I but that's like where it's headquartered, but really in the rearesof where you are. I would be going to this website to try to see if my childcould like get involved in that, because that's super cool. Yes, youknow I mean I used to be a teacher myself. I went by Mr Debot. Did you goby Mr No big deal? No, definitely, definitely not that! Okay, I think I just went by deal they. Letus just kind of be artistic with our stuff, but that's coon, yeah, no matterwhat not Mr no big deal yeah. It's not that's, not a thing, never would be athing just so everybody knows one of the most rewarding things for meis like kids that have now grown up reaching back out to me. Have you andlike saying you, Mr Debo, you meant so much to me. Yeah, you know like you,you had this effect and you like shift O my light like have you had that withany of the kids yeah for sure it's amazing, it's crazy! The like they'llover the like last few years, they've like found my music and then they handme on instagram they're, like you probably like they feel like I'm superfamous, which is not something that I feel like at all. It's not evensomething. That's true, but you are you don't get on the show if you're, notokay, well, F, R for Yo's brand I'll concede that, but it's not true it'snot true, but yeah. They. You know they feel,like I'm extremely famous, you know and they're like you probably don't.Remember me. You know this is my net and I m. I remember all of them. Youknow I'm like, of course, I remember you, like you know, say somethingspecific to that student and that's just like crazy to them. They're likeyou know, and then some of them. Some of them areartists in their own right now. Actually, a lot of them are artists intheir own right now and I you know, I follow some of them. Some of thembecome producers and are excellent added. You know, diamond store, shotout diamond store and yeah, so I still have like that. Even aworking relationship with with some of them and there's some on the horizon toso that's awesome, because I always wonder like okay, what what career pathdo you choose? You don't go to college, there's, not a rap college right and,like Petit, he's not doing his show anymore to Ye Ramain. The ban, Oh wowyeah, making the like that show was about you wasn't a Dilon dialogue. Itwas about me, do on Ilana. I wish I was found me man, I spit half, I well. Yousaw your name wrong, so it couldn't be about you because his name is spelledcorrectly. So now I know who I'm dealing with okay yeah the upper hand.I mean so sorry, but you know, I think, that your music is what I'll say. Yourgenre is what teenagers like you know.

You talk about Middle School. You talkabout high school, like that is the stuff they're listening to like I do.Young Life Ministry and those kids are like Debo check out my playlist, andthey send me to spotify this and it's mostly just trash wrap like justvulgarity, a yeah and like I'm like. If I listen to the edited version of this,it would just be a lot. It would sound like a flat line in a Hospitio waveyeah, I'm like how are you like, and so I try to like send them. You know yeahstuff that I think is nothing more appropriate. No big deal, Andy tribe,no big deal and we try yeah. You Know John Kee Molly. He ICEBER DJ my kvright, yeah, exactly why you're saying exactly so like how is it now, like you hadthat influence on those kids when you are teaching them poetry, and now yourinfluence has multiplied so like what is that message that you are trying toget across to that next generation? That's got indie tribe and no big dealin their ears and that's what they're listening to yeah, I think it's reallycool to not only like yeah hold on my brain is recalculating. Ithink I think it's cool to make music about love and enjoys connection to God andhow that affects your whole world and and the peoplearound you that's a that's how I would kind of define my music and any tripesmusic from thirty tozer feet up. I think it's cool to make that, but tothe to the students and to the kids, it's it's cooler to make that and itactually work. You know what I mean like. If I was doing it and it didn'twork, they would be like t y. They would still. They would still like, like me, becauseof our relationship like with southern word, but when they see it and it works, andit's like big to them, then they're like Ting, like it just makes it more attractive. Youknow, and obviously something doing numbers doesn't mean like that's,not the validation, necessarily that we're looking for, and that doesn'tmean that that by itself isn't going to changehearts, but it's really cool it gives you their ear. You know what Imean when it is kind of doing numbers, andwhen you move excellently, you know more than the numbers it's like moving correctly like, like you knowlike even this podcast like this looks great. You know what I mean like these.This is the right type of audio technology. These are the rightmicrophones delighting like the room. All of that stuff. You could do thesame exact podcast and we could be using like the courted, like ear buds. You knowand like pulling the pulling the microphone up to the Mike like thelittle microphone on the Carter Year, but we could be. We could do that. Wecould put it out everything you know. I mean there could be a phone pointed atme. You know, and we could put it out, but a lot of people there's so much noise,there's so much being promoted and comes across people'sscreens and their ears every day that that's not going to break through thenoise. You know what I mean like the production value has to be right solike in the same way, it's really hard to grab the attention of their eyes andtheir ears and to be able to give them that message. If the quality is notthere, if it's not something that that can compete with kind of like you know,you were saying: There's a lot of negative messages and harmful messagesright. If the production value on those negative and harmful messages is betterthan ours, why would they listen to ours? You know what I mean so like whenthey come to my instagram and they're, like that was my teacher. Like you knowthey, of course they have homes. They have friends like in their neighborhoodwho rap and a lot of times. It is those harmful and negative messages for, andthere's a lot of reasons behind that. You know, I'm not blaming anybody, but when they see what I'm doing and seeingand seeing how it's worked, how it's working and stuff they're, like maybethere's something to that and they're much more much more likely to listen tothe actual lyrics and the message you know and I've seen that happen. So I think that, may I think sometimespeople may sleep on how much the methodology actuallymatters. You know they're just like man, if my heart's in the right place andthe message is good, like God's going to do something with that, heabsolutely can and he- and he historically has you know what I mean,but but at the same time cutting cornersand not being excellent and not using wisdom s and not moving in preparation.Those are all anti biblical things like...

...wisdom, preparation, moving inexcellence, honoring the Lord, with your first fruits, with the best ofyour gifts. Those are L, that's all biblical to you know he really made maytake a podcast that just has the hear, buzz and blow it up, because he's got,and that would be to bring him glory to say, like look, there's no way you canattribute that to, but also moving in preparation, wisdom, excellence thathonors him too, and and there's a very logical way that that cuts through the noiseand attracts eyes and ears and excites people about the messages that you'retrying to put out into the world to you know to inspire people to joy inlove and connection to God and connection to people, hmm yeah. If this podcast does well, itis not because the equipment- because I am the host- and let me just tell youall- glory- will be to God if this thin hansel out how good th the equipment is,is what you're saying I'm saying if you an your where it's not mine, I'm thetitanic of boats. Okay, I'm hitting the iceberg and it's not Mowgli is allright. I was going to ask that yeah, but I mean I think that, like ourrebellious heart sometimes lead us to those types of music or types of media,but sometimes, like you said it's just the quality yeah like it doesn't matterthat chick fillet is like this. Christian restaurant, like the reality,is high enough to wear people just want it right, and so, if you can get intothe mines and into the ears of the you know, the teenager is the whoever andthen just say now, that's good music m like and then you start seeing becauseyou know we were talking about top five rappers. Yes, and when you talk topeople and you ask them there top five anything geneal generally, whether itbe rap rock pot, whatever Christian artists aren't going to pop up in thosetop ride, and not not to say that the quality is not there. But there issomething about that disconnect, and I mean we've all seen like the worst ofthe worst, that Christian, music and gestion media has put out. Like we've.Seen the stuff that makes us cringe a little bit and it's like to hung in aNegro by DC, talk you're going to have to cut that out on you, no, no, no yeno to as and a Negro by DC. Talk still up on streaming. Take O please, and whywas that even made? It's like what twenty five? I I'm going to say this,because we have a lot of time, so I can rip on this for a second, so rememberwhat you were going to say, but to like I'm not gonna say to their defense, butso that I'm representing correctly what happened and not just completely one side, villanise it yeah. I actuallyknow I researched, because I had the same question as you: How why did theygo into the Suon Record, this okay? They didn't go into the studio recordrecord it. It's actually like a little right before cut to commercial skit type thing that DC talk did on theArsenio Hall, show in my thinking like around one thousand nine hundred ninetyor something I don't know, and it's literally the audio from that likethey ripped the audio from that and like mix it a little bit and then putit on whatever album it was originally on and then yeah, but but then they re released andlike remastered it and put it out in like two thousand and fifteen orsomething which that's the bigger issue like be a like. I also, why was it on our SINEL? I don't knowwhy our signal hall was cool with it. You know what I'm saying like that. Sowhen I saw it, I was like all right for some reason: Michael Tate thoughtit was lit for some reason: Arsenio like aired it, so maybe one thousand nine hundred andninety was a different time. I wasn't alive. Maybe something was going onduring that time that made it kind of all right, but the remaster and rerelease and like still up and anybody who hears it now does not have thatcontext like nobody knows that, like maybe people knew it when you releasethe album in ninety one or whatever so anyway, that's just so. I fairlycharacterize it. They did not go into the studio and write this song and putit out, and I also think it was like couch between they had some songs aboutlike racial unity like like they had songs aboutracial unity, and that was the glue that stuck ittogether. I know exactly it doesn't really make sense, but I'm saying itwas they thought it made sense. It wasn't just flippant and malicious,they thought it made sense, but look this is, this is be said, it doesn'tmake sense yeah, it shouldn't be there, but anyway that was his. That was forfree.

I'm sorry, I detailed your train ofthought. Well, no, that's fine! I mean Mr Debot Story. I actually T I actuallyintroduce Ashley to it two nights ago in the car, and I saidyou know hey because I saw it on your instagram yeah. I was like you got tohear this. You've got a experience, this awkwardness and she heard andshe's just like that's a Christian artist and I play the next time Iplayed. I was like this is Jesus Freak. This is like their number yea and shewas like right. Why? Yes- and I was like- Idon't know yes and I'm sure no big deal has something to say about it and youdid. I did so. Thank you and I hope you have something to say. We we'll get alittle bit more back on track yeah. So so we went through your childhood. Wewent through your after high school years and now like it's the pinnacle of what happens to deal. Does he go intohis rat career? Or does he just like? Maybe you do something to say like moresafe yeah, because you were you kind of got connected with Derick Minor? Yes,and so now I mean that that's a big deal. Yeah and you're, like bumpingshoulders with a lot of famous people, is like what was going on during thattime. You were his road manager yeah. I actually interned at reflection. Music Group shout out DerekMinor and reflection music group, so I started out as an intern with the independent label that he ownsand I mean I was sleeping floors. You know yeah cleaning the studio that one timelike like the pipes first or something, andI was like drying out the bat kitchen like like I mean I was an intern intern.You know and just and also kind of just hangingaround. Actually the beginning of that story is,I was at M, Tsu, shot out M Tsu great school. A lot of a lot of likeChristian hip, hop artists, have some kind of connection with M. Tsu lacrewent there for a couple semesters street symphony which he's a grammy war,winning producer for well, a ton of artist like Christianand mainstream, but he got a grammy with Le Cray and some other people. Hewent there derek minor graduated from there. I graduated from there Moli the iceberggraduated from there. There's people I'm missing to, but even even moreproducers and ars and stuff. So it's like a pretty. It's got a pretty coolroster of alumni within Christian hip hop. It also just has a huge alumni inthe music industry in general, but for Christian hip hop it's it's a powerhouse to so I, while I was at mts, I was kind oftraining to be an artist manager, so I was managing one of my friends at MTS and Derek minor was coming back to mTsu to speak to the Christian Music Society. So I was like we need to go tothis and afterwards like. We need to try to go up to him and like meet himand hopefully show him something like we were just in like kind of grind mode. You know- and I was tryingto you know- be the artist manager or whatever so he came in. He spoke and I was like all right now's ourchance. We need to go up there, and so I go up there and I'm I introducemyself and say you know this is this. Is My artist and we'd love to like show you somemusic and he was like? I was very nervous. He wasway cooler than I thought he was like yeah like come on outside to you know to the truck and well, you know I canplay it and listen to it or whatever I did not. I was not expecting that andnow being in the music industry for a long time, that's kind of crazy that hesaid that, but so we went out there played the music he was like. I don'teven remember what song it was. I know it as my home Ryland shot out, Rylandexam. I think at the time your name was Sano or it might have been Yashuaserious. He had many different names just like I have many different namesbut shot out Ryland the homie yeah. So we listened to the music. He was like yeah man. This is reallycool, but he was more interested in. Like I know now, he was more interestedin kind of mentoring us and since we were local boys like bringing us out tothe studios that they had in that in Murphies, where I live now and kind oflike, I think he just saw something in A. I think the song probably wasn'tgood, but he saw l, I think it wasn't...

...like, but he saw like or how we weregrinding. He saw our spirit and definitely he has a heart to likedevelop younger artists and younger men in general, and I think he was like. Iwant to bring these guys out to the studio. I want to kind of like build arelationship with them. He like it, ended up inviting us to like Bible,study and different stuff, and that was like an amazing time becausehe was like Dan. We get to go to Der Min studio like Learnin, aboutreflection, music group hanging out, and so that started like a whole thingand even more of my friends kind of like joined that group, and that was like a formative time for us and so through that process. I, like the I think, the next year at mtsyou, you need to have an internship to get the credit. I was getting a musicbusiness degree, so they want you to have an internship you're, really yourjunior and your senior year. I actually think I started interning for themsophomore year. I want to get ahead of the game and so yeah started interning there at R mg, like I said, doing an internthing and they liked my work there. So then made me a merchandise manager for the artist there, so I would likeI'd be selling the march at their shows, and I was in charge of like inventoryand all that and then eventually became a roadmanager. So it was like working my way up from that beginning time as Derek was putting out. Music in arm wasgetting bigger and bigger and yeah through that process of becoming a road manager. That's whenonce I was Dar road manager, merchandise manager, rode manager. That's when I started meeting all these different people, thesebigger artists, hes famous artists- and I mean Christian music in general anddefinitely and Christian hip- hop. That's when I met Lacre and Andy, andactually that's not what I meant Andy, but it is when I met Le Cray andTadashi triple the reach records. Guys really. I met some, so many people inChristian hit Bob and Christian music, but when I met them- and I was makingmusic at the time I was actually derick was allowing us to use his studio. Heended up giving us an extra key. Like I mean he was like extremely generous andand insure in all of our development at that time, but yeah he just give us akey like he trusted us them after spending like a lot of time with us,you know, and we record stuff, and he did he wasn't even listening to it. Hewas just like Yeah Y'all like go experiment whatever yeah through thatprocess is when I met all those people. I had been makingmusic in Deryck's studio. He hadn't heard it yet, and I also didn't want to like, while I was a road manager,that's what I was doing. If I was out on the road. I was a road man, a somerchandise manager. I wasn't going to use it as a back door to show my musicto lere or show my music to whoever, because I didn't want to be the guy whowas like you check out my mix tape. You knowwhat I mean they get that like all day, and I knew that from being a roadmanager like man yeah, I mean that takes humility, yeah and patience. Some of it was thatI'm not going to deny that that the spirit was working in those ways, andsome of it was just. I don't want to look like these people that I have toas a road manager deal with night after night, who are in the they're supposedto be in the meeting, greet line and they're supposed to take a picture orget an autograph and they're there under that, like guys, and then theyget up to the table and while the artist is taking a picture, they'rewhispering in it here like Yo like check out one make tape or like cannotfree stole for you, even though we've said like we're just doing picture withit, you know, and so I'm like how bad would it be for them to do thatall night, and then we get back on the bus like Hey, Ho check out my bigstable. You know what I mean like that's gonna and people do that, butI'm like this is going to burn the bridge. This is not going to be a goodidea so, but that ended up being a D and then Iwould say the third component, that's just kind of part of my personalitylike it is. You know it is the spiritworking in me and humility. It is me trying not to be the mixtape guy and then I just I don't want relationships to be based on like I. I don't want to just make relationships so that I can liketake advantage of somebody's position. You know that's just not me so yeah like, for example, I was N. I wason the road with Derek and mccray and...

...two thousand and thirteen for winter jam. So that's like threemonths four months, three or four months, a ton of shows, I can't evenremember, like I don't even know, feels like sixtyshows or something like that and never showed like Le Cray. My musicdidn't tell him. I was a wrapper at anything. No and I was like garing upto like put stuff out and didn't tell him, butthat end that ends up paying off, because whenever they did find out on amusic, usually it would be from once at once. I did like once Derek didhear my music. So all right, let me back up so we're back in the studio nowright and me and my friends in there Derek comes in he's, left something inthe studio. He opens up the door he's like grabbing this thing. I'm justgrabbing this, whatever he's like WHO's, this I'm like this is me he's like that's you and I'mlike. Why was he shocked? He hadn't he justhadn't heard anything yet and honest. He probably was shocked because of thefirst music that we showed him. You know like okay, we had showed him thatone like at the like outside of MTS and then like a couple times over the like when we were doing longer tourslike and shout out, cannon the rapper cannon. We were like closerlike it's, not that we were closer than meand Derek, but we were close. We were closer in age and closer in like he would like pick on me like an olderbrother like Derek was like the boss cannon was like, I think, he's just one or two yearsolder than me or something, and he was like always trying to haze me and prankme and stuff like that right. So I felt more comfortable like showing him themusic, because I knew it wasn't like I'm trying to leverage thisrelationship. It was we were like more. I guess. Peers is a good term like atleast in like age and stuff, and so you know he had heard the music, and so Iremember him playing a song on a long like a long tour that wewere doing that whole record label. I was still, I think I was an intern atthe time, because the music was not good and cannon's got the phone and he's likecontrolling the music, and he just like goes to one of my songs and I'm likepetrified that I knew the music wasn't ready at this time and he's playing itlike for the whole label to hear like we're. In like an expedition orsomething he doesn't say anything he doesn't say this is deal, he just playsit right and it's not good and nobody reacts at all, which is theworst like like that, like the songs that had beenplaying, he had been playing bangers. So everybody's, like you, know, havinga good time like Ali road trip, plays that everybody kind of like and then it just kind of like go silentand then now people are just kind of riding like before. Like everybody Wal,you know, and now everybody just kind of like looking out of the window and stuff.I'm like he's like dying he's like trying to contain himself ashe always is, and I'm like this is the worst and no nothing happens like hedoesn't say it's me or anything. It just goes to the next song and thenpeople are like you know, jamming again whatever, and so it s like that wasweird. I actually told his story to Derek like years later and he was likeI didn't even know. I had ever heard your music and I'm like yeah because itwhen he played it was bad and I didn't want anybody to know and Kennan didn'tsay anything. So I was just like h and the e thought that was hilarious. O S,I didn't even know your music played. I was like yeah, that's that's that wasthe Lord, but but yeah so the first time that Derek knew that heheard my music was in the studio and that's when I was ready by that timethe stuff was more polished. We had had time to kind of like figure it out. Thesong was called Indie and it was kind of like the beginning of also like thephilosophy of any tribe was like in that song or whatever, and he thoughtit was dough couldn't believe it was me he tweeted it out. That was like when Igot my first kind of like introduction to the fan base of Christian hip. Hoplike Oh, you know, the fans are like dark minor, just tweeted out this newartist, this new song, I have a scene, listen to it, start getting fans thatway. So when he started kind of showing all the people I had already met in thecapacity of road manager, Merch managing my music, then they were muchmore likely to like support and share...

...because they're like wait. A minute.We've known this guy for years at this point and he never tried to push hismusic on us like that made them want to like share it and support it.Especially since you know they thought it was good. You know, so they likepaid off a lot to not be the mixtape guy and just to build theserelationships behind the scene genuinely without trying to leveragethem and really serving them through being like Mercian road manager andwhatever. And then you know when, when yeah, when they heard the music,they like immediately supported the cray was putting it on his instagramstories and props, and I remember when propaganda retweeted it. I was like. Ohmy gosh, what's going on, like you know, it was like every camp inCasa was Christian, Christian Hibo wassupporting and I was like man. This is. This is amazing, you know so yeah and you were so good that Derek firedyou yeah. He did that's that's a funny sentence, but yeah there yeah. So I was road managing Iwas mid at road managing meaning I was average. I think that I think I hadsome good runs. I made some pretty big mistakes, and so he sat me down one dayand he was like. Do you want to be a road manager? Your like your whole life, or do youwant to be a artist like? What would you actually rather be, and I was likewell, you know I would in a perfect world I'd be artist, but it's too risky.You know I've gone to school for music business. I think I can do this, youknow so I just stay a road manager. He was like cool you're fired. I was like I'm looking like, but andhe's like yeah. I know yeah that almost crazy and he's like he's like. I know that you won't reallypursue becoming an artist. If you have a safety net. He said I don't knowanybody who's made it who had a safety net or who had a planbe like you, gotta Sow your fire, and- and I mean itworked like that like when he when he said that and fired me thatfollowing year I put out three projects like in one year in one year, smoke signal summer camp sessions andno dealings all in one year in two thousand and fifteen and- and that wasI was going to say a large part, but not a large part like the whole part,was because he did cut that safety net M and I lost Tatra income. So it waslike time to go. You know had to work a full time job. While I was making allthose and that's where sudden word came inwhich we talked about earlier but yeah I mean- and that's actually wherethose two combined, because, like the the knowledge that I got from for the music business and formarketing and all that side of it from Tsu and from largely from reflection,music group and and Derek combined with him, cutting that safety net combined with working with literarydevices and writing and the energy of the students every day insouthern word, just like all came together, yeah for Real, like and man, yea cut your safety now so thatyou could make suicide net hey and he like, he sparked the fire that has nowcreated the holy smoke. FIOM Debo like I feel like it's crazy to hear thateven back, then you were thinking about any tribe, yeah and like now like herewe are like upper hand. Right just came out a couple months ago, which has beenall I've been listening to since May man, and now, let's keep it going withthe marvel origin story, like are the cats in America? Okay, I'll take thatwhich is what you told me Yeah, you know I do. I don't want anybody inno in any tribe to like come at me right, R, the leader but yeah. Theycall you the cats in America, like, I feel like you have this, this brain.They came up with that yeah. That's not! The people like John and mole andMichel had a discussion about if we were marvel characters who will we beand they decided, I was captain America who are they so DJ? My Lv is the hulk which yes makes Perry sense. Angry John Keith is spider man, the Funny GuyYeah, the the extremely skinny funny young, like there's a lot of like he's,the youngest, the skinniest, the funniest...

...he's very versatile to like Spidermanis extremely versatile, like maybe the maybe the most versal like of thesuperheroes. You know like because he's super strong he's fast. He has spidesince, like all all the web stuff, you know what I mean sometimes says thingsthey probably shouldn't hey. You know I'm saying Tony Stars got like keep himin check, right, right, right, right, like yeah and then Mowgli is doctor strange because he does weird things with hishands. I'M NOT gonna lie. I don't know Dr Change that well, but they allagreed on it. They know more especially John and Mikel, like no marvel way morethan I do, but isn't Dr srange's like a genius likereally smart yeah, I mean he is a genius, okay, very smart, but I wouldput smart on like a Bruce Banner or I mean Yeah Yeah. The Moi can't be thewhole. I just I just think of him as like doing weird stuff, with his handsand wearing a cape and like being mysterious and kind of know for a fact.If John Keith was in here- and you said I mean- I just know him for doing weirdstuff- for my hands down would be like. Yes, yes, exactly exactly. Yes, that'smolly like he would definitely he's like the Ricky Bobby of Christian hip,hop yes, but that put that on it now, I know John would say say that Yes,absolutely this is this is John, yes, absolutely and then he wouldaccidentally slip into a dense impression, yeah anyway, yes, but andlike in the Spiderman everything that I've seen with Andy try like outside ofhosting this show, I do community with B tob marketers like business andbusiness marketers, and so we've been talking about our marketing team. Thisbook called Primal Branding, which we spoke about the other night and likewhen I go through the seven elements of it, I'm like they're, doing it wow. So,okay, I have the seven elmores. You said you hadn't read the book, So yeahso number one creation story like how how did Andy try form so give me like alike a spark notes of okay of that there's, two iterations of any tribe oractually there's three of the original one in two thousand and fourteen was mejust kind of like uniting a bunch of artists intodisciplinary artist from M Tsu kind of like we're. The New People werethe where the underdogs were the little guy where not none of us are signed.None of us are like part of big corporations. Let's pull all of ourresources and our creativity. We also like aligned with values and like message and stuff.So let's pull all of our resources and creativity to so that we can break through the noiseof like the mainstream, essentially and justlike kind of practice. Philippians to in you know not moving in ambition andconceit, but considering others is more important than yourself not looking outto your only your own interest, but also the interest of others. So, let'sgive each other platforms whenever we can. That was like the original thing and then, as I got intomusic and got further into music and released my first projects, then therewere Christian hip, hop artists who alignedwith that vision and wanted to kind of make an like an ind tribe, proper meaning, likea set roster of people where that philosophy, like was the epicenter andthen like that philosophy, could go out to more people and more people could bea part of it, because that's how it was a red originally wasn't a set. Rosterwas an idea of philosophy. A lot of people who participated was just open.Anybody who wanted to be under that and then it was like. Let's make a setroster me Mowgli the iceberg and Jerry Manna originally, and then we, the nextyear we added what up R G to that same concept, same idea and then, as time went on, we actually we started that first orthat sorry, that second iteration of Andy tribe, with the set Roster MowgliMe Jerry R G at the beginning of our music careers. So we aligned like withour messages and just like our personalities as friends, and we justimmediately did it, but we didn't kind of know ourselves as artists or wherewe wanted our careers to go. What our specific callings within Christian, hiphot, were at the time and so as time went on, we started to see like forJerry and for R G. my opinion is that they, like, we all, knew ourselvesbetter as artists in a few years and the goals and the places we wanted to take ourartistry and Indie tribe, Indie tribe...

...for me and Mowgli fit that like, butfor Jerry and R G it didn't fit what they wanted to do. They didn't knowthat at first you know we all did it in earnest. Last time went on. It was likethis isn't really what we want to do with our careers and we're on adifferent C trajectory, and so they left and then John and Mike Kell. We we always say wehad the luxury that that luxury that we didn't have with Jerry with Jerry and R G and me and Mowgli,which was there, was no history of our career, and we just we just immediatelymade it when we first started out John and my Kell during that whole, likethree to four year period, we had a luxury of just knowing them aspeople and then seeing how Andy tribe, like the direction of any trap, wasgoing without them being on that. So when they decided to join last year, they had four years of understandingthe Indie tribe philosophy of being friends with us of of learningthemselves as artists. So so their decision to join was a much moreinformed decision than the original. For and that's not anybody's fall isjust a time thing you know, and so, when they joined as we've seen kind ofwith like upper hand and stuff. It's like it was just like it feel like aglove. You know because it was just an informed decision, so yeah, that's kind of how, like anytramp, yeah, nice and I mean they figuring out, like the condensedversion of that not on a podcast, will definitely be like whenever you guysspeak to your creation story. Just like having that quick. Like a couple linesright, I was just like you know something catchy something cool yeah.The second element that he talks about is like your the creed, your missionstatement, your belief like here, Young Mary Christian. We want to see everychild in the foster care system here in America be put into a Gospel Center athome Nice. I soay like wrap that up. It's like nice and sweet so like whatwould be indie tribes mission statement right, see, that's funny because you feel like we are executing all ofthese things, but we're not like I n. We don't we don't. We don't have these,but I think I think that we had. We have the what would be distilled into thesethings. We just haven't done the work of like Oh yeah. What's the elevatormich of each of these things so at me, and maybe that's something you guysfigure out yeah. I know that, like our- and I think I told you this off cameraearlier but like our overarching thing- is to model and push people into a joyous andloving relationship with God and with people boom. No, but I feel, like he'd,be more concise a little bit more sure. You know what I mean, but that's thatthat's what I'm saying we have the things behind it, but we haven't likemade the here it is, you know like like, likeour Church, is multiply Gospel Change for broken people on purpose. HMM,that's like what you're talking about with any chat doesn't have that likeboom, but you will might drop. I feel like I feel like by the end of thisweek. Like you you're already thinking like it is be done by the time you getback home, okay, so number three for primal branding is easy for you guys,because it's icons- and I see it everywhere- and the more horses, yeahyeah, a running yeah running to the left. So they're not like old schoolSuper Nintendo Games going to the right right, they're going to let yeah isthat just because the emoji goes at the because the mogiges you wanted to go tothe right, I don't care, I don't care which way they go. I was going to saythey're on the move. The thing is that they're on the move- O that's a is yeahyeah, try em on the move, which is number five sacred words that you guyon the move. Try on the move. You guys already have it yeah that yeah we dohave that one, and I that's a well established one, and I will say thisgoes with number four rituals, which is something your fans come to expect fromrepetition. Every time I see one of your videos and it's like Boomi, Idon't like it serious, AH and you're like if you're, not part of the tribescroll up. This isn't for you. Oh yeah is serious and I'm like. Oh Ye aboutthe half of here, it's got is a spicy yeah. I am proud of that. Intro I, likethat Intro we have a. We have a lot of them, though, because we have like thetrial on the move tag. We have the horses running sound at the beginningof projects. We have Chelsea saying I really like the people were becomingyeah. That's Chelsea is Chelsea, yeah, yeah, very good, yeah and yeah. We have a lot. I have that withthe videos yeah, so okay and then the last twookay, so pagans is number six. So like...

...means pagans like Mac has PC. You know.Democrats have Republicans. So that's a fire term. I love that. So you knowit's like the haters like every well, not even hate it's just like who is theopposite of Andy tribe, any tribe, and then there is yeah, there's Andy tribeand then there's a well major labels. That would be one. Those are those aresome pagans. Okay. Is it funny just because you call majorlabels pagans? I really like to turn Pagans. I like I like that they use itin the book, but it's also a slang from Toronto. Well, it's actually probably from theCaribbean, but so it made its way into Toronto. Slaying because of theCaribbean influence, but a pagan is kind of there like an opposition, andso it makes it makes sense to me in a lot of way. I'm like. Oh. This is acohesive term that I really like. I love words like I mean you're, a WordSmith Yeah. I neared out about him so like hearing it, as was a branding term,and knowing like it's like road man, sling is like making me really happyyeah. I is one UNDAS CLICK, no they're, not getting us they're, not taking us,no, no, no, no well, unless, unless maybe the term is broughte than I thinkbecause, like you said, apple one PC, I'm feeling like those are like there was some heat with thatcompetition. Well, like starbucks and Duncan donuts would probably be pagans.But if you're a coffee drinker like Ashley will go to either one yeah, butbut sometime pass lots at Duncan, though different than we would look atone hundred and six. We look at them as those are the homes like we are. Wejust did a song for their playlist they're, going to they're they're likepromoting. Like our festival, you know I mean so, okay, that's that's why Ifeel it I don't feel like starbucks would promote a new Duncan late, whereas one one six, they will promoteour new our new stuff they'll promote your new late, all promote it a lot toif I came out with a lot E. I know for sure. I know for sure that on oneundred, six reach records would promote my late, a hundred percent, okay,everything everything that we've said before this doesn't even matter. We'veall led up to this moment. This is the question. I've wanted to ask thisentire time. Will we ever get to see a hundredundreds and a indie tribe, rap battle, or a full Collab, a fool co that I meanthat might be too many people on one track, but, like anything where all ofyou come together, a mega mix yeah so like the the one hundred and sixclick proper, like the ones that did a project choose their for best.Therefore, and us for yes, that's a great idea, maybe four tracks an a oneV, one four different tracks: wow, you really want it to be a battle, though,like you don't want it to be co operation, which is what we're aboutyou want it to be competition. No, I just wanted to be good fire content.What if it is a collapse? What if it's one of yours with one of theirs comingtogether and you do four tracks that way: that'd be cool and then and thenthe last one has everybody on it. Yeah I mean this is literally going back towhat we talked about the beginning, Jaz and Lincoln Park. Yeah, I'm an together.That would be fire, I'M! I am massively open to that yeah and in number seven,and- and this is the easy one- is just leaders yeah when people think of anytribe, I think they think yeah no big deal yeah. I said it so you didn't haveso thanks. I see so you talked about independent versusbeing on a label. Yes, that's what Andy tries all about is in it, but at onepoint you're with capital correct, like you even mentioned it like nothingagainst capital yeah, you know, but I drive later after yourcapital. I drop lower case to let you know it: Ain't about capital. That'swhat I said on holy smoke. That's the bar M. that's the bar on holy smoke anddrop a bomb put a bomb sound effect right here in the PODCAST: Go Google flex bomb and drop the flax bomb right here and and when capital came afteryou, I know that they weren't the only ones they wanted to sign you right. Sodid it feel like a college sports draft, they were actually the last ones whowanted to sign me. There was like a whole. This is just fact this isn't meflexing there was there was like five labels that were trying to sign me after Ireleased canopy, my first album it did well on Itons. I think it hit heat seekers onbillboard, and...

...so there was like a little bidding warand capital actually wasn't part of it. It was like reach and then Sony three hundred entertainment, whichis crazy. That three hundred was interested at all. Three hundred islike me, Gos Young Gana. That type very successful label did not thinkthey'd be interested in me, but yeah, some others and capital actually happen because Marty shot out social club, misfits andMarty Marty for president. What's up Marty was like he was like man allthese able to hit you now. What is capital offering- and I was like nowife from capitals- hit me he's like what he was like hold on, and so he like, apparently, he sends tree,tops from the canopy album to his an R and like within fifteen minutes. His anR is like contacting me like, Hey, like. I think we should get coffee whateverI'm like WHOA. That was wild. You know. So it was a weird situation because Ihad a friend like with with a big label: it's just a label, it's just a businessdeal when the independent labels reach reflection, music group, it's like itfeels more personal right, and I had these as we've already discussed, thesereally good friendships. At both of these labels- and it kind of felt likeit felt like if I chose one that it would be like choosing one friend overthe other, you know and that yeah I didn't capital was like Switzerland or Sweden er, whichever oneis neutral, I was like I'm just going to take this like deal that doesn't have any kind ofconnotation at all. It's just like paperwork, we're just doing a deal. Youknow that was the that was definitely themain driving factor. Okay, as for picking capital versus the Indi labels,picking capital versus the other major labels that were in play was capitals.Deal was better there, the their head, an R was, he is just a much better an R in everyway like he makes the label seem more attractive. He is, he meets. You diesin to you as a person. His name is Brad shut out breath, and so there wasn't really a comparisonbetween the major labels. Capital obviously stood out. The real thehardest decision was the one you just talked about was reflection and reachcapital. That I mean I was stressed out. I was stressed about that. Like Chelseaknows yeah, but I ended up just choosingcapital just to be like. I don't want any other connotation to be attached tome. Signing then just and when you signed with capital was inf already blowing up with capital yeah. He was trying to think of where he was in thatprocess. He was definitely already big. I think therapy. That's the name of the album. I think Ithink therapy had already come out, which was like super huge. It was yeah, he was already big okay and hewas big, but then, like you, when you were with capital like you left, whichis surprising because, like everything that went on with Kesha- and I feellike labels, just kind of like have that in the contra that you can't leaveright, you were able to leave and I'm- and you said the other night, it wasbecause it just wasn't working for you the way that it does for ther. It's notthat labels are bad, but it just wasn't working the way that it was with in Fand that kind of like had my mind, all twisted, and maybe it's just because Idon't understand how labels work right like like break it down for, likepeople like me that don't know anything about labels like what does that meanfor aurist and how can it? How can it be good and how can it not work outhere, yeah and T, and that's one of the reasons that choosing capital was thecorrect decision, because I I can almost guarantee you if I sign toanother major other than capital C mg that theywouldn't have. Let me out of my contract, that's just like the the standard thing that happens is,if you sign your name, I signed for Sixty Masters, essentially sixty songs.However, I wanted to package that whether it was EP singles album somecombination of that I had to give them sixty songs. I did likethirteen and in any other major label situation, they'd be like you have tofinish out your contract, like you, can't we're not going to. Let you leave,you know, sometimes they'll they'll, let somebody buy you out of thecontract, like anotherr label,...

...who has a lot of money, can pay thatlabel to release you, but it's it's. The right is belongs to the label onceyou sign it to release your unless your contract says both parties have the theright to renew or not renew, it's almost always just the label. I try toget written into my contract to be both sides, but they were like we're notdoing that, and nobody ever does that unless you're like Taylor, swift orsomething, and so choosing capital was the right moviebecause they at the end of the day, they were just gracious that there wasno like leverage that I had to be able to leave, because I was unhappy with that year. They had all the leverage, but they I had to have like multiple meetingswith them because they really wanted me to like stay longer, but they said youknow I had yeah. I had a lot of like cold hard facts like I don't feel likethe growth from my first album, which was independent to my second album, which was on capital CMG solar. I feel like that. That was that growth was the trajectory I was already on andthat it would have. Essentially, the same thing would have happened whetherI was on the label or not, and that you know they looked at the numbers andthey essentially agreed and said we neverwant to be a label of that where the artist feel like they're trapped. Soyou know we're just going to release you with no strings attached, so that is not the typical story andthat's why I don't it's not personal, it's not a horrorstory or anything like that. I'll, never take that away from them, but I had like. I was unhappy with my deal on alabel that is gracious and is willing to do that. So I'm like how much worseis it in just a standard situation? You know as far as breaking it down for for artists who don't understand, essentially signing signing a deal with a label issaying I will give you ownership of what I have created. I will give youownership of the revenue stream of the lion share the vast majority, in effectall of the ownership of what I have created, because I believe that yourmarketing ability and your branding ability is so strong that you're goingto blow me up and multiply my platform to the point that I don't even miss theownership that I gave you if you can't say that with a hundred percentcertainty, then there's no reason to sign a deal now that might sound veryominous, but that does work a lot that, like any artist that you see on a labelthat is successful. That's what happened! You know. I Pick AnybodyJustin be regret. It doesn't matter like Taylor, your favorite artist,that's on a label. If they're truly successful, that's what happened.They gave up the ownership and the label did that they knocked it out ofthe park. They multiplied their platform and marketed them. So wellthat now their platform is ten twenty, fifty a hundred times what it wasbefore I was on the label and that ownership that they gave up wascompletely worth the platform, the money, the the the ability to create better artbecause of the money that they put into the production side of the deal itworked out. But that's the only thing like you should not be signing a deal because of name recognition. You know you know just because it's you know badboy records or tte or whatever it is. You know. That's not true. If TV wants to sign,you sign every single time, it doesn't matter what the terms are. If KendrickLamar's label wants to sign, you sign it was you saying today with D I wassigned today with to, if you were, if you like, if you had, if you this had my mind,were you in you o the mask up over your head and you were really punched fromtte and you were like sign this. We own everything I'd be like here, you go. It's like all of mybrandy with any tribe poose, see you later yeah and and then I would facetime, John Mikel and Mowgli, and they would a hundred percent support it,especially John. Yes, S and John would...

...be mad that I that I didn't like pitchhim, but I actually probably would pitch in, but not John. Not. What didyou say? John Anne Mowgli was support. Everybody would support a Althora. Johnwould be mad that it wasn't him is, I saying essentially, is yeah, that's nottritoma the I would not sign it would have to be good terms, but I wouldreally I would really want to sign that deal, but it would if it wasn't goodterms, I wouldn't sign it. That's just a right knows, but yeah I see people sign for yeah like brand recognition or liketheir their favorite artist, is on that Lemol or because Oh yeah there's thislike prevailing thought that, like independent, is minor leagues, you know,delegue and and and signing to a major or just signinga deal in general is like MLB. You know I mean now you're likenow, you're really doing it now, you've made it now, you're, really aprofessional and everything else is you know, underneath that, and that'sthat's not true at all. You know, but and labels know that people think that,and they let people think that I mean I'm not, I don't think that's evilor anything. I think that's just like you know business I think, like a lotis makes sense, but but the labels know that they knowthat's why they wrote like when they're. According you to sign a record deal,they roll out the red carpet. They'll, take you to any restaurant, the manthey had me out in in underground, like restaurants, in Nashville that Ididn't even know existed with, like all these artists there and stuff, I'm like.Where are we right now, like I've lived in middle Tennessee, since I was nineliterally? Where are we right now? Like I didn't even know this existed, youknow and hmm kind of promise you the world, youknow, and sometimes they believe they can deliver. I think, with with mysituation, you know I was told, like man, we seeyou as like an international like rap star, essentially like bigger thaneverybody in Christian hip. Hop like like somebody literally was like like we could get you to the top ofChristian hip, hop that would take like maybe a year, but but we, but that'snot even what we're looking at we're. Looking at like making you like kindredLamar, you know what I mean like and I and I don't. I don't really think it waslike hot air. I think I think they've had a lot of success, a ton of successin worship and in CCM and then n f happened and I think thatmade them be like we can do anything and that's not what happened. You know, butthat's what that was. What the conversations were. You know and againthese conversations are happening in these amazing spots. With these amazingpeople, you know didn't even know existed the spots I knew the peopleexisted and, and they just couldn't deliver on those,which is why I was unhappy, but that doesn't give me any legal leverage likethat's the thing they can say all this stuff and I think that's what like getspeople wrapped up is like now, and even now I know like the onlything you should be listening to is what is in the contract like like, havea lawyer that understands that to and be like okay they're telling you you'regoing to be. You know drake, but what's in the contract, do we have budget transparency? This isgetting into the weeds and getting technical now, but still budgettransparency, length of term and track record with your specific genre, if you're in a subgenre, yourspecific subgenre, because the similarities between me and N, F andrap, like we both wrap but rap, is so big that this point that that's notthat's not enough like it has to be much closer. Like musically, culturally aesthetictargeted fan base demographic information, it has to be way morespecified than just okay. You guys both right, you know, and so yeah, that's somewhat of a breakdown. Imean I could talk about labels and independent for hours, but yeah, and Ijust think it's good, because I think a lot of our listeners for this episodespecifically are going to be people. You know that are maybe trying topursue rap as a career. Hip Hop is a career you know like up and cominginspiring artists, or maybe they're,...

...just like in the music world andthey're trying to figure out, because it's like, like I said, there's notreally a school around. I mean other than maybe m Tsu yeah, which it soundslike the path. If you're trying to get into the music world, you got to go toTsu, maybe before that, do some slam, poetry, classer, and it's just like knowing about labels like trying tofigure that out like. I, never even thought about that as an artist of likechoosing the independent route yeah, because, typically, I always thought oflike, if you're a musician you're, not making a lot of money. Probably beforeyou make it big and so a lot of them look at the label as the bank yeah andand they're going to flip the cost. But they got out of remember, like you saidthe other night, it's a loan that you're taking out like you, are takingout a loan. Yes, they're, going to cover your cause, yeah, but now you'regoing to be paying that back so now in our world with Youtube, tick,Tock and Instagram, and waste to kind of get your music out there, like, Ifeel like because back in the day like there is no way to get your musicreally out there right as an independent artist. But now I meanthere is: I mean you're once this drops, the smoke will have clear from holysmoke, festival a yeah but like you're a couple a week and a half away rightfrom doing your very own festival, yeah, which is huge. I mean there's going tobe basket three on three basketball, yeahBa, celebrity basketball tournament we're going to have the world premiereof the Indie tribe movie movie yeah any tri movie. It's a movie somebody's beentuned into the to the social media. That's right! Any try just adocumentary guys! It's not it's! Not We're talking Sun Dance, I'm so ready,and will we be able to see the movie? Is it pronounced cans, the the moviefestival in France or whatever cans cans? We're talking, Sundance we'retalking cans, we're talking to movie do do. Do I have the privilege of watchingthis like on Netflix or Hulu e Amazon? No joke we, or do I how you're trying to we'retrying to you know we're figuring something out with Amazon, Prime OkayJoe? But if I'm out the festival I'll be able to see the movie? Yes, peopleat the fecial see it first see it with us, see it with the director cinematicsshout out cinematics shout out cinematics yeah, because I want to betherese. I have seen your life like. I think people need to understand,because, let's give this straight like I am, I am a Christian who listens aChristian rap, but sometimes when I think of a live Christian rap concert,I don't think of the crowd getting rowdy okay rightright, but when I have seen your live performances I mean people are gettingtaken off in stretchers. I think, like these kids are it's like a mosh pitlike in the world of Christian hardcore, like slam dance a like for today.Augustines are past the day, shout out yeah and at amount, and I think thatyour live performances might be wilder yeah. Like you lazy, your fans wouldcrush a marshal. I mean. Maybe that needs to be the challenge. Maybe thosewere the pagans out there that the fan bases like a mash battle like a wall ofdeath yeah, I'm in at each other. I right right. I don't know I mean I see,I see you guys as allies like the hardcore kid like rats, kids always sawlike hardcore and I'm on. I don't know all the subgenres, but has allies likethose are the cool. Those are the cool kids on the other side of the spectrum.You know what I mean there was like a mutual respect. You know, because it'slike well now now a lot of that stuff is popped, but it was the fringe genres.You know what I mean: it's like you got. Oh, you got the pop and mashing an it'slike. Oh you got the. We were looking at you guys, like. Oh okay, that'sthat's some flavor over there all right like and I I always felt respected bythe EMO and hardcore kids. You know what I mean. Yeah K B did a song with somebody from the hardcore world,probably yeah. I believe that we will win below who'son that. I know that song. I don't know. This is going back to my emo days whenI have like a bang that came down to my channel. Yes, but okay, anyways. What Ireally wanted to do is I want to try to get on stage at holy smoke fast. So Iwrote a bar O see if I'm good enough. Okay, so we'll see what you think aboutthis, all right is my just flop. Okay, I'm going to be honest with you. Man,please, be honest, okay, this might be when you like, first presentedsomething to Derek Miner and he was like yeah yeah. Take you on tour withme, but you're, not a rapper, yeah yeah. Actually, like yeah, we like when wefirst presented something that Derek Minor. His response was: Let's do aBible study, so so I so I so you'll know it. Yeah you'll know it flopped.If I'm like, Hey man, you want to dig into the word a little bit together.Look a Bible study with no big deal in Chelsea, I'm there for it. If you justwant to be the Ruffiki to my Semba, I'm...

...there for okay wow yeah, I know I know you talk aboutRafiki and your album was okay. So here we go. I don't have a beat. So, as a Capellam,I got you right now: You're chilling, like Dylan, here's, the deal, Debogonna flow deal or no deal it's the rhythm that I'm feeling no big deal onmy show. So now you know who you're dealing with the MC of Y M C at an a atthe end. Like the village people, orphan were trying to set free, okay,okay, okay, can we get some claps in the studio for that passing the studio,Lexman right here, all right, so the word play? was there m the wordplay like legitimately? I liked it like. It was all like this one thread, theLittle Ymca thing you did with the village people. You know what I meanlike wordplay. was there I'm gonna give the word play a seven. I'm gonna give the word play aseven. I'm gonna give the rhythm a five. I'm gonna give the delivery a one that I I here, man hey look Mama didn't make itokay, so we're play. was there okay? So my rap career is not going to make it.I can only hope to just be there as a fan. Speaking of fans of you, we've gotChelsea here, yeah we're going to bring her in we're, going to get her hookedup and we're going to talk about marriage and some fun stuff. So, let'srock and roll, let's get it! Okay, now that we got Chelsea in here, we'regoing to hear the real real. So I want to know Oh wow, what was going onbehind like what goes on behind the scenes of, because everybody, here'syour music. Everybody sees what you post like on social media, like whatyou know. We want people to see but like what's going on behind the scenesof all this, like I'm sure it's hard work. Yes, it's a lot of work, the the his specifically for him, butmusic industry as a whole. The hours yeah that so specifically for him like in rap andstuff, but music industry as a whole. The hours are weird they're, not normal hours, and Iwork a normal job. So I'm working normal hours, but you know he thepeople he works with, sometimes don't even start working until the eveningsand so there's a lot of trying to figure out a balance of how we can havedinner together and have plans and go to bed together and you know be on thesame sleep schedule. Those are I'd say pretty consistent. Things were havingto work through and figure out and figure out, the balance of, and justthe fact that he doesn't stop working like he does. He works really hard totry to like car out time for that, but his phone is his work. It's likethat's his personal phone, that's the phone. I call him on, but it's also thephone that people are sending him tech, saying hey.We need your mix notes right now or you know, hey, like literally yesterday,we're at universal and an email comes through, and it's like urgentpublishing request and so we're like he's like hey, I got a call right now.You know so it's like we're, even in the middle of a vacation where it'slike it's just as we don't know anybody else around like we can do whateverit's like, there's still work and it's he you know he's independent, so he'san entrepreneur to like he runs this business and that is demanding in it ofitself. So that's kind of like it's just kind of constant, even like LeFlying out to come here the night before he was working until eleven pmtrying to get stuff done, and then the morning we were flying out. He had aninterview like at eight thirty in the morning, and we had to leave the houseat ten o'clock to get to the airport, so that's just kind of the normal we have to run with, and it's just like always on. Even whenyou come on vacation, it doesn't stop like yeah, and you know you have to have your. You have to haveyour own like boundaries, though, because otherwise that's something that,like as an independent artist as an entrepreneur. That's just that's something that comeswith it: You're, either going to have you're going to set hard and healthyboundaries or you're going to be working aroundthe clock. You know, if I mean, if you have theentrepreneurial spirit, you know I mean some people I get if yeah anyway, ifyou're an entrepreneur and you're really doing it. That means you're likea very self driven person, a self starter, you dream big, and then youexecute right. So those are good things, but without hard and healthy boundaries,because of those...

...personality traits like you have the the danger is being being a work, a holly andignoring the people right in front of your face and in you know around you incommunity and and not and projecting, especially as abeliever projecting this image of you know following Christ and andloving and being sacrificial and be impatient and Joyce and kind, and allof the all of the things that Jesus is and that we strive to be putting man onsocial media, projecting that and then not giving that to your spouse to the people. You do lifewith your church. You know, and not even walking that way before God, you know so I'm still learning I'm not perfectat it. She was gracious and saying I work. I work hard at trying to have those boundaries, but it's a work in progress like tryingto cultivate those like were times that the phone is just not in the room. Thephone is off days that I'm just off it becas as your career grows. Itstarts to you know when I feel like when I firstwas trying to like was taking a serious look at boundaries like we went throughthis book call of the common rule with our church, and it's largely about thatabout making God honoring hard and healthy boundaries in a lot of different facets.When I first started looking at that, it was actually easier than now to havethose boundaries because less was going on in my career at the time I felt likea lot or like less consequential things thatthat's better to say it's the same amount of stuff happening, but itwasn't like. If I have my phone off during this time, I may lose thousands of dollars now the hard andhealthy melt like let's say yesterday, I was like I made a good decision-phones off while we're at universal. That request comes in Urgent Miki andLebron may want to use your Song Whoa, but this has to get done today and Idon't turn my phone on until we get back to the hotel and the request isgone and we miss out on that on that money now even saying that right now,I'm like that would still be a god honoring decision. It's real sacrifice,you know, but I'm just saying so I'm not saying that that would be their owndecision. I'm just saying it starts to get harder when you have when stuffstarts to get bigger and people are like. We have to get this done rightnow. Hello, like I know, like I told everybody I told everybody fore, I leftI'm on a vacation. I want to be unreachable on what's the day Thursday on Wednesday M and that's probably why they put urgingin it they're like we know you're on vacation, but hello, Lebron, so yeah yeah anyway yeah, and I think that youknow a lot of people listening, they're not going to be able to necessarilylike relate to. Oh, my spouse is a wrapper or anything, but they canrelate to the whole like making boundaries, and maybe one person havingone schedule in the other person have the opposite schedule, because you'resaying you're, probably going to work like nine or, like you know in themorning until you know afternoon time, and then that's when he's doing all hiswork until the wee hours of the night. And so if you have those completeoutsit schedules, then it's like. Where are you finding that time? Because even your weekends, like yourweekends, like you, don't have weekends like yeah, you're, constant on thegrind? So that's something you guys have had to agree on like we're in this.Like you know, you like you're, like I am marrying this lifestyle, like it's alifestyle that you're choosing to be fair. I'm I'm married before thelifestyle. Are you trying to sign with another label? No, no! I I don't mind it at all. I alwayswanted him to pursue it, because I knew he was good at it and he would love todo it. But to be fair, I married him when he was a road manager right and Ithink that it is so like heartwarming. I wish that our listeners could haveheard our conversation and the Tuesday night because hearing like your supportand like how much you believe in him, like it's phenomena, to hear that- andI love like I was even telling Ashley...

...yesterday like. I just appreciate hersupport of me and what I'm doing you know because, like us going outwith you guys on a Tuesday night like that's our weekend night and you knowshe could easily just be like I'm Goin to hang out at home, but you know she'slike no. I want to support you and what you're doing but like going through tough stuff. Iknow that you guys have been through some tough times. We talked about yourfirst year in marriage and, like you were, you were describing this scene ofjust like all out chaos. So can can you can you have like thosethat are listening in if you're having like a crazy bad day? You think yourlife's falling apart? Listen to this yeah. Are you talking about the bedbugs yeah he's talking about the bed bugs? Well, I was about to say I in ouractual apartment, a apartment I mean it is all of it. But okay but yeah goahead. I mean the apartment was horrible, the apartment was bad, the apartment was seven hundred andfifty square feet. Okay, that's you know. People live in thatall the time, but ours was horrible. It was the floor. Is Not a material thatexists there. The floor was made out of stuff. That is not it's not a thing and it smelled that that it had our landlords were horrible. We got wegot into the apartment by the skin, of our teeth. We so, okay, let's talkabout this for a minute. There was this whole prevailing thing for our parentsand even now like I. Hopefully this doesn't hurt Charlespodcast, but oh Dave, Ramsey yeah, don't ever don't have any credit, don'tlike buy things only cash, no matter whatlike, no matter what the situation is by cash. If you, if you need a car toget to work and you don't have a cash ride, a bike steal a bike and ride it.Still it s bike and write it to work until you can save up the all right. Iknow that there's a lot of good principles for it, but so you know ourparents were on that and we were on that. So we had. We had no credit. Wedidn't do anything with credit right going in and everybody was like cool.Where are you going to live like we're? Not where we are like? Oh okay, can youshow US pacest? No we're both self employed, and I have no credit becauseday the day ran. Were we going to live, nobody's writing to us the day. Ramseything assumes you because you can get into places if you like. I don't haveany credit because of that. Here's, my like pay stuff from my employer, here'smy taxes whatever and they'll. Take that if you're self employed all that'sout the window, then it's just like in Tennessee is they're just like. Well, it's our prerogative whetherwe're going to rent to you or not, because you don't have like your self employed and you have nocredit to us. That sounds like we're not going to get rent. So good luck onthat. Here's, a camp site down the road exactly like, there's a lot of fields,a lot of land out in Bedford, county still, but yeah. So nobody- and I evenhad I had first and last state. U I had three at one point: I had three monthsrent for like, depending on what we were looking at saved up, because I'mthinking yeah here we go and they're like we couldn't care less like we're,not letting you in, and so anyway, we got into thatapartment because one of my best friends shot out BrianKeith Hays Brian Keith Hays he's not an artist he's, not he's just a regularguy, shout out Brian Keith Hayes Anyway shout out the regular guys. Now I can'tlie can't wait till he see the other guys are definitely cutting that out. Imake a boorool it out, but at least give it to me just so. I had it on Dylan's early songs. He, the entireHook, was just Brian Keith Hay's whole name, so maybe we'll make it a podcast.My first mixtape smoke signal there's a song on therecalled since and- and I think the hook is shout out to Brianeshut out to Branka. Yes, anyway, he knew the landlord of the apartment and that's the only way they were veryreluctant, never really liked us, but they it wasa favor to him. They let us in they barely wanted us in there. So anyway,we never were late on rent or anything like that, like we were really goodtenants, but we found possible mold in there. HMM definite bad, bugs AC unit, wentout twice W in July, andwe were sick.

This is all happening at the same timewe're reaching out to our landlord, like hey, it's literal hell in here.It's Gaina in here for you, Greek, New Testament and so, and so I out, I've had a lot of coffee, butno o Co is a different as a different thing.Okay, so yeah! So all that's happening. They don't want to help us there, likeyou, brought the bed bugs. It's not mold. You just want to break yourcontract and it's like what? No we don't. We have nowhere to go. Why we wewant to break our contract, it's just that! There's mold here and they'relike no, it's not a mold. It's you wanted to break your contract, whateverthey didn't want to believe us. So listen man! This is a very crazystory to prove to our landlords, who you would think would want to know ifthere's bedbugs because of how they spread, and if you you can, if it'sjust a seven hundred fifty square foot apartment, you can take care of it andthe rest of your units are good. But if you sit on it and they spread to allyour units right all right, so we're trying to tell them they're likena there's, no bid bogs there, you're lying, you want to break your contract,and so I literally had to trap a bed bug and put it in a plastic bag so thatI had proof right anybody who knows anything about bed bugs. This is almostan impossible feat. I know a lot about bad bugs now, but it's almost animpossible feat because they, like the I'm sorry, I'm taking them so much timewith your podcasts on his but like ve scurry to like he probably has like tenmore lie: Go they they scurried a corners and stuff. They don't want tobe found right so, like anyway, you got to picture me in there like in gamemode like gloves on, like I got the bag, I got tweezers, I'm like ready to gobecause when I do anything like this, I'm I'm like all the way into it and so like and they go under the mattress. Sowhen you flip their gun, a scatter they're going to scatter and get intolittle crack, so I'm like all right one and two three flip it they take off.I'm like diving on there like trying to give one the first one accidentallykill it. It explodes it's no good to me anymore. I see one running towards theback corner right and I'm like okay, you have to get it and be gentle, somelike just get it and it's like still alive, get it in the back. I'm likevindication like this is a. This is absolutely a bad bug. This isdefinitive proof. You can't tell me it's not man we had men, we had spread, died tomachos earth all over the the apartment because it said theycouldn't pass through that. It's like a very fine powder,fine powder, pesticide type thing, but listen. We had some kind of respiratorything going in go going on like we were sick, yeah and so there's all thisextremely fine powder, like everywhere, it's like inthe air there's bed buds. We are also like they're like don't like you haveto dry all your clothes, because the dryer will kill them, so we're tryingnot to wear clothes a lot so that they don't get in the clothes. So we're like we have this is this is before Ovid. Wehave like the in ninety five mass on, like almost no clothes die tomatosearth everywhere with the vacuum like vacuuming it was, it was so crazy. Itwas the way, so our AC was out. It was July, so it was ninety somethingdegrees. The way we slept, though, is because the bites I was allergic tothem, so rid well out yeah like and like the bites were not fun at all andif they, if they find food they're going to keep coming that. So we tookoff all of our sheets and all of our comforter off the bed. So they couldn'tlike get into all that. But we slept like fully covered like we had hoodieslike with long sleeves is like long sleeves long, pants socks like we werecovering every part of our body. We could so they would have be able tobite us, and we don't have AC in the Mo July, like that's how we slept for likethree nights in that apartment until they got this stuff that we be likethat and then the way that I described when it was time to vacuum up the guyto micus earth, which was everywhere wow. That was just the apartment butyeah. Also in our first year of marriage, was a lot of spiritualformation and heartbreak and a lot of what was the other thing. I said at thebeginning. I don't remember well because Chelsea was working with you aswell, like she was your manager right taking off during this time yeah. So weboth had full time jobs and then we would come home and work our secondfull time, job, which was Dylan's music career. So that's, basically all that's. That washow we operated for the first couple...

...years of our marriage was just because I mean he was just starting out,but stuff was going well, but I mean when you're just starting out, youdon't have money to pay people to do stuff right. So you have to keep allthat money yourself. So I was the booking agent. I was shipping march fulfilling March thelawyer. I was yeah yeah. I formed our ll C, I D A R s. You were making legaldocuments, it was yeah and I was our accountant and I oh, I did all like the bookings and stufflike I like booked flights for your shows and, like God, you don't tell, Ididn't be dancing for shows, so I was doing all that while he was doing likehe was making all the music and doing all the marketing and social media andstuff like that. So we were just basically a two person team for thatfirst little bit, and I mean that's: That's how we ran like there was no, there wasn't really any room for much else at that man. Thatwas just how we spend our time, and that soundslike a hard time that, but but it wasn't a hard time that separated you.It was a hard time that probably I brought you even closer togetherbecause you're like having to go through this struggle together, likehow are we going to make it through these bed bugs and like doing likethat's like hot yoga in the bed like cover it up like if you'll, if you'relistening to this you're, trying to figure out how to lose some pounds forthe summer, I promise you yeah. I promise you if you're dressed like thatin Tennessee, if you're in Florida, oh good God, you'll wake up like adifferent person. Yeah, you probably dead. Actually you ll make you wake up dead yeah. Soall your fat, all your fat, would just be there beside you laughing at youlike. You should just stay fat man, okay! You now you're dead, yeah! You Ain't got me. has there been a time, though, in theseven year span of marriage where you didn't think like? Maybe it wasn'tbringing you together and there was some kind of conflict that was kind ofmaking a division where maybe you're like? I don't know if we're going tomake it through this from? Yes, dolling kick me out of any trip yeah, you were the yeah, I'm the onlyone that has ever been kicked out in each of yes, she was kicked out. Shedid not leave voluntarily. I did not. I did not want to, but ultimately wasgood for our marriage, because what we were, we were functioning much more like abusiness partnership than a marriage. You know, because that was that we allof our conversations were about. I don't mean still now we talked a lotabout his career and you know game planningand talking stuff through I'm a sounding board a lot of times but like originally even when we madeofficial, like our lc like we were both like partners like listed with thestate like both of our names, were on the business yeah and then we ended uplike for other reasons, just because you have to do a separate tact turn andall it was just cheaper to make it money just him. So we did that, but butalso practically like I stepped back once once I got to a point where it wasthe option like we didn't. I have to be the one doing the stuff. I think itbecame healthier for us that it kind of just created a space for us to like have band wits and function likenot as business partners, but I did not leave voluntarily at first. No, so sohe kicked you out of Indie try which wasn't even a Ri. You were probablylike whatever I was really upset. Oh, you were a real. It was to aconversation. It wasn't like. He was like kind of comes to me as like babyyou're done. You know like we had conversations it up get out, but it wasa hard thing for me because it was something I built to like. I poured somany hours into it that I didn't really. The time like I didn't want to like alot of my identity was tied up in it. A lot of like why I felt like I had aseat at the table was because I was doing all that work and I was likewell. You know I was kind of like I don't want to just like. I don't wantto just be your wife places like I want to be a contributor to conversation andso like when I in taking a step back from that I kind of felt like I waslosing like my place, especially just like. As a woman in those circles at oftimes I mean like shot out, Aaron cut out Aaron Night Aaron night. Shedoes all his like mark she's, like B Yod and does all his marketing andstuff now but she's like a pioneer for women in the Christian hip, hop musicbusiness space because there just aren't women there, so it was or ifthey are women, but they're like overlooked they're overlooked. Yes, sothat was like kind of a struggle for me too, because when I was doing a lot ofthat work, I really felt validated when I was at. I shows I'm in those spaces,because I was doing a lot of work and people. People knew that you know, andso stepping back from it kind of got hard to me, because I was like what amI going to do like I'm just going to be...

...there. You know- and so it's kind ofhard for me to step back just into the role of his wife and that's probably tough for anyspouse of a influencer or celebrity where you're thinking, okay, I got tofind my own either. I got to find my own thing to like bring me up like ontheir level or I got to be with their thing so that, like you, said I'm notjust this person the shadows, I mean it takes a very special person to just beokay with that person getting all the spotlight and getting to go to all thecool parties and award shows and that you're just like I'm part of it notreally, but an especially when you were a part of it and then going to not likeI'm sure. That's challenge was. Was that the thing that you took to yourchurch to say like Hey, we are struggling? Was it that or was itsomething different? No that that? What was that yeah? That that's kind? That's what I was talkingwhen Chelsea was like he's talking about the bed bugs. What I was thinkingabout was so that yeah, that was no, that had nothing to do with music.That was yeah. That was like our marriagefalling apart, because of just because of sin because of my sin,because of secrets that I had and that hadn't been dealt with and that Ihad to like confess to Chelsea something stuff that we had never likedealt with before and we needed the churches we neededthe church's help with that. You know like, and I talked about it like in my musicand stuff. I think I'm just gonna talk about it, because it's like easier thanjust yep, I so as long as you on okay, all right. In the first year of ourmarriage, I had three separate affairs with with, like it had nothing to do withmusic. It was just like my life, like just life stuff, but three separate affairs and confess that to Chelsea so yeah. So sorry, I'm trying to like lay thisfoundation so that we can keep going, but had three separate affairs wasn't caught like for, like all intense purposes had got awaywith. It is a big part of my spiritual story to which is why I'm trying to laythis foundation correctly, but yeah had gotten away with it, but except for God, God was. I felt like David, where he said he could feel likeconviction in his bones, like he couldn't sleep at night, he felt likehe was wasting away in his bed. God was not willing to leave me in thatplace of secrecy and destruction. He was not willing toallow me to keep hurting thelsen people around me, and so he just just him himself, just laid likeconviction on me. Like you, you've got, you have to confess this. You have to yeah, you have to confess and repentfrom this, and there was like a lot of wrestling goingon. where, like I stops and cut off, like allcommunication for like six months- and I was like you know, trying tobargain with God like never do it again, I'm done I repent toyou, you know, and can we just move forward with thisessentially trying to trying to read scripture in away that would allow for that trying to you know, find Christians online. who had thatopinion like you, should just stop and not a D and not confer, and you canfind it whatever you want on the Internet. So finding like Christianslike yeah like you, just have to live with that guilt, but you you need tostop and don't bring anybody else into that pain. Essentially, so you don'tneed to confess whatever and God was...

...like no like God was like you know whatI have said to you and it's not going to work until you actually come out andlive in the light, and so, but I still was wrestling with himd want to listen, and I eventually like prayed, you know, God, if you want me toconfess to Chelsea, then you know just don't let me rest and I'min it like kind of spiritually like trouble, my heart trouble my mind and he like started taking sleep away fromme like immediately like it was just not going down like I'm tired, it'slate, whatever we know we're working those jobs, the jobs that we justdescribe full time, jobs in that job now and not being able to sleep, and soone night I was like okay tomorrow, confessing all of this to Chelsea. Youknow obviously hardest thing that I had ever imagined doing and up into thispoint I have been a very secretive person very, like private person, you know just kind of hiding stuff,obviously, and so that was not something that was not something that I could doon my own power or that, like even made sense for my personality at the time orwhatever or or my track record or anything. So I mean it was obviously the spirit.It was obviously the spirit of God who who convicted me and who empowered meto confess so anyway, yeah next day, hardest hardest day have to like, like look at Chelsea in the face and confess these things to her and yeah that we kind of immediately knew we are not going to be able to handlethis in this little apartment by ourselves like we need help like we need. We need the church's help, and I mean I don't want to move on tothat part until you. Let if you want to talk about the part that I just talkedabout, I don't have a lie else to say I mean that was just is a very hard time.Then we did need the church and then our church at the time wasn't there forus. Yeah USITH T was your heart reaction to hearing that and how wereyou able to overcome that obstacle and continue to be here? So honestly, my instinct, because ofthe way I was raised, Church goal sure came from and what I can now identifyas a lot of codependency was to immediately tell him. I forgive himand pretend like it didn't happen so and that's just not healthy and butat the time I didn't have any other coping skills. I mean that's a bomb that goes off and you know it'slike well, you know, I know divorce isn't an option, and I know you knowbecause of like you know, my culture is like that. Wasn't something that I evenconsidered and I'm grateful that we did it, but you know it's kind of like all right.Where do we turn from here? Like? I? Don't I have no, I have no skills forthis, like I, I have nothing and and also just a lot of like like pride and like wanting my marriageto look good to people, and so it's like you know, I'm not going off liketelling everybody like. Oh my gosh, like what this like. What do I dobecause it's like? Well, I don't want everybody to view us is like this.Marriage is falling apart so, but I knew we needed help in S Z atwe got to go to our church and we did and then that just thatchurch that we had been a part of at that time, they didn't have effectiveskill, so it with that either. In fact they made it worse and so and I'm in a place now where it's like.I'm still honestly now like I'm, I'm pretty open about like I'm incounseling now and like a lot of this stuff. You know this was all disclosedfive, five and a half years ago now, but I'm just now getting to a placewhere I feel like I'm even actually doing the processing work. That shouldhave happened back then, but I didn't have the support system or the skillset to do it, and so you know I'm able to go through counseling and like get some like. I mean Emdur, ISSgreat, if you haven't heard of it. It's...

...like trauma based there like it's fortrauma, like it's great, so like just for people who don't even know thatthose things are options, because I didn't know those are options. I don'treally know I needed help, and so, but now that we're we're at city, Churchand murphies borough now and have been. Basically, we entered up a city churchabout three months. After all, this happened when our former church did not handleit well at all in city choke church, like he had mentioned earlier, liketheir motto, is like for broken people and they're, very open about theirbrokenness, and they meet you in your brokenness and like the fact that wewent there in the state that we were. We were incredibly honest about wherewe were at and they didn't flinch like they did it. They just were like thankyou for telling us. How can we walk with you M and like that's how Christis you know and in the fact that, like our pastor trevor like he was very openwith us about struggles, his marriage, it had and he is open from the pulpitabout those things and so going into a culture that was very helpful, but atthe same time I don't really know what I needed and especially coming rightout of that other church, where it was, it was really more spiritually, abusivethan anything and so reeling. Out of you know, all of this just came tolight we're trying to process it through. I mean one of the first thingsthey told us and our first meeting was to not tell anyone which, if anybodyever tells you that, like that's not biblical like you need your Churchfamily, you need to walk in confession. You need people to speak into your life, but they wanted to like squash gossip or whatever. So they were like. Don't talk toanybody we're going to get you like mentors like we're going to sign peopleto you and they took five weeks to do that, so the first five weeks after all,this has come out. We have no one, we're told not to talk to anybody,we're not going to go against our pastor, who told us not to do that, butthey also haven't provided the people so like we just really like it became avery survival situation for me. Just you know. I can't I don't know how todeal with this, and I don't have any support to deal with this. So I'm just gonna decide everything's,okay M, and so my story is similar. I was on your endof my first marriage. My ex wife had two affairs and I think that a lot of peoplelistening are probably hearing. How could Chelsea stay with deal? How coulddeal do that to Chelsea, but I think that the reality is and what Jesusspeaks about, because there's a lot of incorrect theology about you know thisaction that was done is worse than maybe somebody looking at pornographyor somebody lusting. But Jesus says it's on the same page. If you go andmurder somebody and you have angry thoughts of somebody, it's on the samepage, like it's a sin level I mean obviously it's harder to take andharder to hear and takes a lot more grace from your partner to say: Oh Wow,like you, you went far enough to commit that, but I think that C, likeespecially young Mary Christians, they need to understand that, like there's,probably a lot of stuff, I mean I don't want to like get anybody in trouble,but there's probably stuff that is in the dark in relationships that doesn'tit doesn't get talked about because they think it's no big deal. It'ssomething small it something little it's not as big as this affair, or youknow they say that. There's these other things. You know you start comparingyour sin or whatever, and I think that number one the fact that you could confess thatopenly and then take the second step of repentance, because if you keep doingit like that, that's how my marriage fell apart was just like there wasn'trepentance there. I was like there was confession, but it was likeI'm still going down that path and then, on the other hand, like I mean youcould have easily just said all right, I'm out I'm done like the Bible saysyou know, this is something that could call for divorce. But having that graceand then just being able to say okay, there we're broken people, and then yougo to the church, and you know shame on the first church for not being able tohelp you through that. But the fact that now city church is helping youguys to the fact that you are now community leaders, like you guys, haveyour own community group that you are leading together and you're like notholding this over his head and he's not having to you know, he's not stillgoing out and like you're, not living and seeingyou're like living in. You guys said a word for it, the otherday of like like exponential grace or like a grace, abounding or just, and Ithink that like that is so big that you guys have now come to that that placeto where hey o we went through some...

...broken stuff, but now here we are, andI bet that testimony can resonate with out. I mean it resonates with me. Youknow I, like you know I wanted to save that marriage. You know when I was inthat moment, but it's like it takes both sides and actually say somethingas that: Yeah so yeah after that city church, the church that we came to, they were able to yes meet us with withthat grace and that understanding and they were able to magnify Jesus's grace.One thing you said earlier is that, like you know, Jesus puts those on thesame plane field. I think where we can get in trouble is thinking that Jesus brought murder and adultery downto the level of of of just anger and or just less, but that's not what he did.He was bringing anger and lest up so like murder and adultery really are asvile as we innately feel like they are. He was bringing anger and lust up there,not bringing those down. It's not. It's not like a way to kind of be, like Imean hey, but you know I commit like. I can't be like you know, yeah Icommitted adultery, but we all look at point. It's not the thing like it. Theadultery should feel like it always did absolutely Jesus bringing it up so like,but the city church was able to to meet us in our brokenness and not heap, shame and condemnation on us, but remove shame and condemnation, notby saying it's all good kind of like we just talked about a singl, but bysaying Jesus is grace, is just that huge. It's that scandalous. It's thatmassive. It's not all good. It is just as bad as it feels inside, but whenwe're talking about ultimate love and whether whether shame and condonationshould exist, it does exist, is just that Jesus tookit. He took the shame in content, condemnation upon himself so that youdon't have to feel that so they were able to. They were able to like explain that tous in words, but even more show that to us with how they treated us during thattime and then how they walked with us. After the thing is, it wasn't like wejust went to them and they, you know, said what I just said, and they werelike it's all good. Like we love, you guys come worship with us, it was okay,let's get you it was. It was all that stuff and thenalso like here are couples that you can walk through this with likedaily, like weekly, like we're going to their house, and we are talking aboutour marriage, for I mean like in a very structure since for likea year and then, but that's just also part of the culture. So really thiswhole time, we've always had like couples in our lives. You know- and so I'm just saying that, because Idon't want it to sound like to anybody who may be struggling with this, whohears us that it was like. Okay, this you know, this sin happened, theconfession happened and boom. Now now you guys are how you are now. No,it was a long process of first of all reframing who the fatheris reframing. Who got I mean that was huge for us. We thought guy wascapricious and aloof and far off and begrudgingly is going to barely let usinto his presence, and we first had to that had to be completely refrainedinto. Who, God really is? Who is a a happy father, he's happy with us likeecstatic with us, because of Jesus, because, because all that is Jesus, allthat belongs to Jesus is given to us in his substitution is righteousness. Thatmeans, God is not like I'm kind of way. Now you to mess up in means, God is.This is my daughter. This is my son with whom I well pleased so thatreframing had to happen well. Confession repentence had to happenthat reframing had happened and then discipleship and mentorship to this day had to happen. So it's all a long involved road. Sometimes you know two steps forward. One setback,sometimes two steps forward three steps back years. You know we're talkingyears and not something that can be taken flippantly or can be deep out orlike be littled or anything like, but I do think that, even though, even now, even likeliterally right now in our life,...

...sometimes it's like really hard to see the the fruit or like the shore,our pastor talks about, like you see the you see the water that you're inright now and the sharks and- and you don't see the shore that you'regoing to you- know that guy's taking you to like. Sometimes it's hard to seethe fruit. Sometimes it's hard to see the short right now in our lives, buteven through conversations like this and like thinking back to that time,like the fruit that God has brought to it, first of all, just revealing likewho he is actually and getting us out of it's like man. That was a horriblesituation. You know you, like Joseph, went through horrible situations to getwhere it was, but it's like before that we did not. We we didn't.We were not looking at the father correctly. We weren't looking at each other correctly eitherlike there was so much that guy worked out just in showing us what who he islike marriage is. What empathy is what I like Chelsea's talking about, what like being equipped to e, I mean there's all kinds of likeripple effects but valuing her own opinion and her own voice and trusting her emotions and her intuitions andknowing when, when things are wrong and voicing that and stand standing behind her opinions and and and and reaching out for health and sayingwhen things are wrong, you know, and not just doing things because oftradition or or to save face. You know like all that,there's just so much fruit and then the fruit to other couples that we have mentoward through our community groups through just doing life with people like everybody at our Church knows thisstory. If this this was like the first Situa I'm about to wrap up, but this islike the first situation that I kind of felt like weary about talking about itusually like, which is what Chelsea was alluding to. Usually I'm just like. Wetalked about this. You know everybody in our church knows this and like allthe artists that I work with everything, but honestly I just hadn't spent that muchtime with you guys. I haven't like your podcast, isn't out yet my my. If wewere talking off record- and I knew it would stay offrecord when we were at like the restaurant. If we just met all it would have justbeen like an open book, but I just want to make sure I'm protecting likeher, especially, but also also both of us. So I just kind of feltweird because it's like I don't know how this podcast sounds like and- and Ijust met you guys not as like a you know, I'm not trying to hurt allfeelings, but that was the only hesitation is what I'm saying, but God,Yeah Guy has used our story to heal us he's still in the middle of it. It'sstill hard we're still growing through it, but he also has produced a lot offruit and other people through our stories, and you know I always say,like I hope like I have scars, we have scars,I hope archgays, so that other people don't have to get wounded at all. Youknow so all right. I just want to wrap that out, so there was more like forsure, yeah yeah. First of all, thank you guys foropening up to talk about that, because that's huge- and I do believe you knowjust having that confession. Is this your first the first time your fan basewould be hearing this? It's kind of hard to say I mean I feellike it's Bla. We both feel like it's like Blanley in my music. But again,not everybody like not. Everybody can receive informationlike that from music. I have talked about it like before, but I don't, I think, probably for a lot of never beenexplicitly laid out like in an interviewer podcast situation. Yeah. Idon't think so. I mean he was on a podcast for our church and it was onthere. Oh yeah, but, like you know in terms of stuff that, like is probablygoing to get to the fans you know like or more geared towards the fan,probably not, but I mean like I don't you said you were listening to closelike like yeah, so many people love that song close that on to me, it's in it's explicit on likewhat we've been through. You know what I said like it's. If you really listento a Liris like you kind of have to do it dance to assume it means somethingelse: Yeah Concha, but sometimes people don't listen to lyrics like that, orsometimes people just kind of go, oh, that it must be something else, yeahcan of pay the canopy it's it's very yeah close is like I kind of just tellthe story in the first person canopy it's more metaphorical, but it'sall the way there, because all of this was before, like my first album Buti burn on canopy is...

...really about that. That's like the most explicit on it butyeah. So it is definitely the first of this format. Well, the last thing I'llsay because you talked about reframing and I think it was really huge what youtalked about. Not I mean because it sounds like that whole thing made youreframe just like what is marriage? What what is our faith? You know whatis a church to us like? What's that going to be, but you also talked aboutlike reframing like how your parents did family units versus how now youguys a you know see the family unit. Can you talk on that? For me, a big, a big reframing, andthis like has come into it's just that my family didn't really talk about stuff likehard things we just I mean I never saw a conflict between parents like which,in some ways it's a blessing, but now I've seen the flips side of that oflike I had no like skills on how to likecommunicate when there was a difference of opinion, or you know so. It's likeand just my family just doesn't typically talk about anything. That'shard like we never talk about politics. We never talk about even really, eventhough I grew up. They grew up taking all of us a church every single week myfamily was so clogged in. We didn't really have a lot of conversationsabout God or about you know it. So it's like there's so that to me is like thebig thing that I just didn't have a lot of sense isstill a challenge for me to like, speak my mind or say what I thinkif I know the person I'm talking to probably want to agree with it. So tome, that's a big thing of like I've learned largely to do with us, but justin general like I think that is a reframe and my parents have their ownreasons for why that, like you know it's like just like, I didn't feelequipped ry my family to talk about ourselves. They didn't either you know.So it's not it's not a slight on my parents at all. My parents are greatparents, but that is something that, as I've moved into adulthood, that I'venoticed that there is. I have a lack in that area that I definitely want to tryto figure out. So when we do have children like they are equipped to handle conflict and to speak theirminds and to do the stuff like that yeah and I second that to justtransparent, I mean really it's echoing what shesaid but yeah. I grew up. We had deep and hard conversations, but not yeah. We we did have deep in hardconversations, but our I guess it's a little different. Our thing was likeit's family business, which I understand the married in that and Iget the thinking in the heart, but that what can happen is like we keep. We keep stuff in the family ifthere's conflict in the family like or yeah conflict in the family or there'ssomething that shouldn't be happening in the family or your hurt by somebodyin the family or yeah or even if it's just like a thinthing. You just keep that, like all in thefamily we can handle that at the house. We don't bring people into that. That's our business right and not now my parents definitely weren'tlike. If somebody hurts you were keeping that in the family. They wouldbe appalled at that like definitely not, but the thing is when you're you're a kid, you don't know all the nuances andstuff like whatever, whatever the phrase is, and whatever you see modeledyou're going to do that like to the extreme, so parents could mean, ofcourse, if somebody in the family hurts you like tell somebody, but if theculture of the family is no no, we keep that in the family. Like you know, then the kid doesn't know that you know likeunless it's like explicitly Si kids, don't know anything unless it'sexplicitly said it's kind of what we're saying like you have to have thoseconversations and but then I anyway, I think that directly affects marriage, whereas, like I, I looked at marriage.That way you know, and you can see in our situation. The spirit did the work, because if wehad taken that approach that that approach loses all benefit in thatsituation, if it was like okay, this is this is family busses handle. Thishappened between us, but we got to handle this between the two of us are.Even we got to handle this between the two of US and some other family members.You know, but this can't get out like that, that air of secrecy and N andhiding for an image or for a saving...

...face or whatever like thank God that he came in and was likeall of as out of the window like tell on yourself, then go tell people youknow, because they are going to be able to walk with to to help me drag you outof darkness into light and then we're all going to walk together on this packof light. You know what I mean, and I say that, because I I prayed that to God, like that, hewould it's a cowardly prayer, but he answered it. It's like. I don't want tostep into the light. Like you drag me out of this darkness. You know what Imean, and that can't happen if you circle the wagons and be like. Oh, wegot, we got to make sure our our family name is good, you know, and so ah so good. I could talk to you guys forhours and hours like we're, going to have to do a sequel to this we're goingto have to have you guys we'll go to Disney next yeah yeah yeah. Hey Way, Ithought you were a nick kid you're going to go to Disney next time. Well,I, Okay Yeah! I want to go at a Disney. That's me, sacrificially loving her! Well, I love that we went all the wayfrom Nickelodeon to talking about the potential of you guys having a childlike a little dill pickles. You know like rug, rats. There we go so I feellike we went full circle today. She about Dillon Prescott, pickles, that'shis middle name. You can look it up bill in Prescott. The fact that you knew that I love it.So I have appreciated any and all time thatwe've had together. I hope that we continue to stay in touch and but ifpeople are trying to stay in touch with you, maybe just by listening to yourstuff, seeing everything you got going what's the Hash Tag, what is the handle?What are they looking for? It's no big deal on anywhere. You could consumemusic or social media or anything. So that's in O B, I G D Y L because myname is Dylan, so Dil N, big Dil at no big deal on all social media, nobody doing spotify on apple music, ifyou type in an big Dil on Google it'll only be me that comes up awesome,amazing! Yeah! If you don't go check him out, I mean the fact his name's dyllike why the l would you not go check him out? Wow, okay, okay! Actually Ijust ripe that off a young life, so probably can't say that okay, butanyways, it's been a pleasure to have you guys here if you're still listening,we love you guys and until next time stay young stay married but definitelysay Christian, Hey, I all right y'all. We hope you loved that conversationhere, Young Mary Christian. We are on a mission to see a Gospel centered homemade available for every single child in the foster care system. There arefour hundred thousand kids in the foster system and there are fourhundred thousand churches in America. Yalta. Church can solve this problem.If you want to join us on this mission text, the word freedom to eight three,three, three, seven, oh one, six one! Oh another thing you can do to help usgrow. The reach of this podcast is to leave a rating in apple podcast. It'ssuper simple, just go to the show's page scroll down and give us a ratingfor this show Debo w. what's a good rating typically just count the fingerson to my hand, and then I click that many stars all right. So we're nottelling you to give us a five star rating, but for the love of everythingholy. It would help us time if you would and give us a rating. I guess forthat guy that has four fingers just add one. Yes, you don't even have to leave a reviewbecause, let's be real, that takes too long just go to apple pod gas and leavethis a rating. Yes, but seriously, though, if you do nothing else at leasttext the word freedom to eight three, three, three: Seven, Oh one, six one oeight, three, three, three, seven o one, six, one out: he the three Thrty, seveno one, six, one o eight, the th, three, seven one, six, one O we were best friends up until I had toget confessions the stress. Now we are going to need some minites to the Penoright. How could I like? I have the night by your side, all the while I lieon a Sicot, my bows to the side. Now Your Eyes Close Tingin the nightValentine's just another day feeling not a place, and I really hate me whenI see your face, then I contemplait what if I e Ras at a better than thebase in the truth on we've, been a...

...waiting for you, someone who isfaithful to you, grime by my face with Yo Weddin bend up. It gets my job I M,and I could have stayed is for every winds for every nastery. I can neverestimate a she paid to fingie my boss, a baby girl. You don't have to takethis. She said boy on the o. You co I'll. Never let you go come. Let me inyour. I wont. No, you Clotho people like me.We never seen a wreck like me. We never hold Eden like me how you going to savea rash like you, I might turn a bottle to a hospital or somebody care canenesis on a real ganete might need a Menis need a friend of the nowand. Iknow I deserve it. I don't even want to find the party. I don't need some kindof words. I have heard everyone. I know in the worse I emberg Mente kind ofClovis here to go. As I don't know. What's next, when I die well, I lie.Will I love it wet I love it. Will I pay the price for rejecting everythingyou gave? How much does your pace cost? When I face off for my passion, I losethe game of the Sand Castle, it of fear, and now I pray that you send a wave.Will you renovate? Will you sermone if you're, even there, you just probablyhate me, you pullyd, and I on the sparing my heart my hand. I live againin that I like a cross. I can never estimate you an thinking, my fat in theLord. I can never an I boooooo on on. Never you come up come. Let me your you Clo. I won now you Ol, never you! Let me out.

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