@nobigdyl - Could Your 1st Year of Marriage Survive This? w/ nobigdyl.

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Transparency will set you free.

In this episode of Young Married Christian, host D-Bo sits down with Christian rapper and Derek Minor mentee, Dylan Phillips, A.K.A. nobigdyl. Dyl riffs on his writing process, dealing with racism and bullying as a kid, and his journey to success in and beyond an often overlooked genre.

Plus, he and his wife Chelsea fill us in on…

- Finding a balance between the hustle and a healthy marriage.

- Living up to the values that Christians often portray on social media.

- Overcoming infidelity in a public way.

- The importance of finding a truly supportive church and community.

Links to find nobigdyl. and the rest of the indie tribe.:

https://www.youtube.com/user/nobigdyllie

https://open.spotify.com/artist/1sPm31qmcbk9EFoRCS8eRl

https://music.apple.com/us/artist/indie-tribe/1143614467

Welcome back to young married Christian, where Christian influencers talk about marriage and parenting. We're on a mission here at young married Christian to see a Gospel centered home made available for every single child in the foster care system. And in this episode Debo talks to no big deal, and it was the exact opposite. It was a big deal because I was super excited, I was fan blowing out and it was so cool to see him kind of tear back the curtain of the Christian hip hop world and kind of give me a behind the scenes look and honestly, you guys are behind the scenes look into what that looks like. They are. was also a part of the interview where dill and his wife talked about church hurt and they talked about the power of community and how their church has just done an exceptional job of building community. And talking about building community, not only did you talk about his solo career, they talked about the community of Indie tribe and the branding behind it. It was fantastic. Yeah, and I think the most incredible part of this entire interview, maybe the most incredible part of any interview we've done so far, was at the end of this episode you're going to hear dil and his wife talked about incredibly vulnerable season in their marriage. It was yeah, it was incredible, the the fact that they were both willing to talk about such, yeah, such a vulnerable moment in their marriage. That happened in the first year of their marriage. So definitely stick around to the very end of the episod showed you're gonna want to hear that story. Things got deep, so hold onto your prayer. Beats, Susan, because we are young, married Christian. You're dealing with top five. This is this is a really hard question for somebody who like really studies hip hop and is like all the way into it to make a definitive list. There's ones that you can say, for Cloud, Oh, two pox of my top five. Whatever. Man, he's not. You don't listen around. No, I love Tupap, but I'm just saying I think people will put certain names in their top five. It's not and it's not their personal taste. It's just what's expected or whatever. I would say. So all time. You're asking all time top five. No, no particular order, just the top five. Since Adam was wrapping out the animal names in the Garden of Eden. Wow, wow. All right. So I would say this is hard. Jay Z for sure, let Wayne, for sure, drake for sure, Kanye. And this is where it gets hard. This is always where it gets hard. There's so many that you don't want to leave out. I'm just going to say Kendrick correct now. So no Christian rappers. So if you're I mean no Christian rappers in the top five, and all the Christian rappers that I talked to, very few, extremely few, have a Christian rapper in their top five. I do have. I do have one friend that has a Christian rapper in the top five. But is it blasphem is for me to say that, Jake, my favorite Jay z album was the one that he did with Lincoln Park. It's so that is an excellent album. MMM, but your opinion is incorrect. Yes, your opinion is objectively incorrect. It's your opinion, it's factually incorrect. That is the same vocabulary that I hear from Ashley often. Not. Okay, Sunday morning after church, you and Chelsea you're leaving. You don't have a whole lot of time. Yeah, you're hungry. You got to grab lunch. Yetta go through a drive through? It's your choice. She's given you the choice. Where are you going for a drive through? MMM, or just something quick? You didn't think this is gonna be that hard of a question. I mean, I like Taco Bell. Anything in particular about Taco Bell. You don't neat that any fast food restaurants do? You're like, do you just name the first one that you thought of? We do, but it'll I don't think we would do a fat I don't think we would go through a drive through after church. The situation you set up was not a part of our rhythm. So it was so my brain was like, I don't know to do with this. This input isn't working. You know what I mean? Like if we were going to eat after church on Sunday, it would it would not be a drivethrough, most likely, and if it was you not, I just...

...probably wouldn't be okay, what would you is that because their church on's like lunch time Sunday. He's making a noncommittal you guys. You guys just fast on Sundays. Now we don't fast on Sundays, okay, only only new moons and you know, festival booths and yeah, that type of stuff that's like time nice. Yeah, okay, I asked that because, like for me, like I'm kipper. Huh, yeah, I'm kipper. I don't think how you say it, so I could pour I have. I have like a connection to a fast food restaurant. It just recently up been here in Orlando, White Castle, because like my father, like when I would hang out with him, which was, you know, not too often, like I would get to spend quality time with him and we'd always go to white castle. So it has like that. Like I have that connection to my childhood. Yeah, in that so I was wondering, like do you have anything? Apparently it's not fast food restaurants, but like do you have something in your life that you have a connection to your childhood that it's like maybe it's not good, like you go back? Yeah, I have that, because I understand why castle's trash. Yeah, but I had I have that for sure. Okay, so we're what does that for you? Okay. Well, first I want to say that like like tackled Bell McDonald's are like our most frequented fast food restaurants for sure, because kind of when you're in the mood for trash like those are the two trash things. But you the thing you're talking about with like nostalgia and an emotional connection for me would be Brown send round sugar cinnamon popped hearts and Pizza Leegables, even though I know like it's crappy, especially the piece of legible like that one. That's wild, like an adult being, like I gotta have piece of legibles right now, but that's the same thing that you're talking about. That's the one for me. Is there a story behind these two things? I think it's just it's not like as maybe zeroed in and focused as yours, but it's just the childhood thing, like it's just a childhood nostalgia, good times, pizza ellegables, you know. Yeah, yeah, because I think I like what I hear your music and you're talking about things like Richard Scary. Yeah, I had to introduce to my fiance the other day at Barnes and noble as we were reading children's books to each other. Yeah, but you talk about burn seeing bears, you talked about Dragon Ball Z. Yeah, you get a whole song about Barney, like yeah, you reference a lot of things that like I'm like, Oh, we live the same childhood, right, right? Is that because you're like, are you trying to relate to these s kids like me that you think are going to be listening to your music, or are you trying to go back to like a time in your life that you really love? Like why all these like childlike cartoon references? Yeah, well, I I try not to try that much in music. Like so whatever is like just naturally coming out of my head and my heart, that's what's going to like be in the lyrics. If I'm if I'm trying, then I'm going to try on like the marketing side and stuff, but with the music I kind of just let it like, you know, let it come out. But as far as the references, that's that is how my mind works. That's how like conversations with me, like with me and my friends or whatever. That's how it works. Those connections. My brain is always making parallels and allegories and and just all different types of connections between things. So even if I'm just like walking down the street, out in the world whatever, like, those connections happen, you know, and music is actually been like an outlet where I can make those connections and verbalize them and put them out into the world and it's like people like it and it's revered and it's like unique and in conversations and stuff growing up, then it's more like why is he like this? You know what I mean? Like before it was like he like, what is he talking about? Why is he so excited about this? Why is he nerding out about this thing? But when it's in the music, people are like, how do you think of that? How are those connections? You know? So it's like, you know, it's that thing of like the stuff you maybe were like ridiculed for or, yeah, like kind of an outcast for becoming like the thing of the thing about you that is attractive, you know. So where you bullet is, bully doesn't high was bullied as a kid. You could probably tell by how I was just talking about it, but I was. I was bullied pretty heavily in in middle school, which I mean middle school...

...kind of sucks for everybody. It's nobody's like Yo, middle school was fire. Like, I don't. I'm some sure some people were, but most, most people aren't. Like I just I could go back to middle school and just do middle school over and over again. You know. It's like, but yeah, I was for the I mean mostly for being a Chubby kid and then, but actually it was for being like it for being like too smart or like speaking weird war. Yeah, I mean it was. It was centering around that too. But I think the I think the thing that hurt the most was the like the Chubby bullying, like the weight bullying, that type of stuff. The other stuff was like it kind of even at the time it was like, I don't really care that y'all think I'm weird for like like in all this nerdy stuff we're talking about that, but like the appearance thing was like that one kind of stuck with me, you know. So, yeah, I mean and now with social media, I feel like those kids, I mean like I don't know if you've seen Bo Burnham's eighth grade movie. Yeah, and it just like focuses in on like how much self image man matters to these middle school kids and high schoolers too. And I mean you. I feel like your callbacks to those things might I don't know if it's just a way to like say, like I'm over it now, like I can I can freely say pigiat and my rap, like I'm cool with it, and I know the other night you were talking about how you drew the line in the sand between being a knick kid, yeah, and being like Disney. You like Mickey Mouse. Get Out of my face. I'm not missing, like I'm all about the Rugger as I'm all about the Hay Arnold. Yeah, even Doug. You know, I watch some Doug Du. You know, San, why haven't you thrown a wrap over the Doug beat? I I did like an unreleased song over. What is it? It's like strumming on my Banjo, I'm you remember that? Yeah, hitting on the street, like yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, so you've done it, but we just can't hear. There's a lot of songs that I that it's you know, as an artist, you make and never come out no. So so what made nick gain your allegiance enough to make that song and to draw the line to say and say no Disney? I honestly, probably early, like super early in my childhood. Probably my mom felt like it was the most appropriate, like kids station. Just thinking about how how my mom was like raised me and stuff. Probably she was like, Oh, this is the kids are maybe the least route on, this is the least crude humor, there's no like blood or whatever. So nickelodeon is probably what she liked kind of put in front of me and then it just like went from there because it also had, like Nickelodeon also had nick Jr, and mom had a daycare one point. So probably was like all, all right, nickelodeon's cool, you got these like developmental shows on Nick Jr, and then it goes into something that she could get behind. But because you know cartoon network, cartoon network has some heat, like for sure, like cartoon network shows also were very fire, but mom wasn't into like some of the like more adult jokes that they would like slipping. I think cartoon network had like sometimes I would have reruns of like renting stimpy or something and I think cal and chicken, and mom was not with that, like she wasn't with the humor that was on that type of stuff. And then adult swim. She was like all, if you watch it to later at the wrong time, than adult swim comes on. So she wasn't with that. So I think I think it probably started with her and then I just got super into like, you know, ruggrass, Hang Arnold, dug rocket power. I mean it was. It was definitely like a golden age. And then all the like live action shows where they were just like sliming people all the time, you know, kids competing in like doubledare and legends of the Hidden Temple is. That's that's what it's called. Right, legs hit the tiple. Yeah, and Orlando. Yeah, so, Oh, yeah, that's right. So you're going to definitely be able to fact check all this stuff. Yeah, I think that we fact...

...checked that. You were on the show double their housing. Yeah, was I you're on doubledare two thousand. Right. Well, you fact checked it, so I'm asking. Yeah, tell how was that? It's I guess the fact check is yes, I need a fact check. Does yes, okay, all right, I just wanted, I just wanted to do to know that. Yes, the blue bubble beams was the name of our team. I named I named both teams and they were the red flame throwers and we were the blue bubble beams. Alliteration on point. Yeah, and see the thing is, they they let me name the teams because nobody else wanted to like step up and like, you know, when they're when the host is asking, you know, backstage like Oh, what should the names be or whatever. Everybody it's like, Oh, we're going to actually, I'm like, I'm not going to act shy, I'm going to name us, and not only am I going to name us, I'm going to name them the like I named us, so that we are water pokemon and their fire pokemon. They were done from the beginning and they didn't even say anything, witness, they just let it happen and within we beat them. And of course we beat them because they were the red flame throwers and we were the blue bubble beams. If they knew what they were doing, they would have been like no, we're not gonna BE WE'RE NOT gonna be the red flame throwers and then be the blue bubble beams. You know, it was a the test. It was like, are they worthy? Are they worthy competitors of us? That was the test me naming them. It was over. It was over before I started. They're like no, we want to be the grant green razor leaves. Yeah, exactly, see, that's what they should have done. That is if they would have done that, then I would have been like, guys, we need to surfer the wagons. We got to come up, we got to come up with a game plan, because these are formidable opponents. But as soon as they accepted that name, I was like, we got this in the bag. We gotta get we got to call Professor Oak Yeah and figure this out. Okay, so when you're on the show that like did you? I mean everybody, every kid, wants to get slimmed. Did you get slimmed? Yes, I didn't get like over the head slimed, my parents did. I my challenge was to like get a flag out of this this big banana that was filled with yellow slime. So I like like I stuck my arms in there and like had to reach for it and all that. But my my mom had like a soda machine thing that she had to like are not actually that was my that was my dad, I think. Yeah, my dad had the owna machine, think because he felt and that was like pouring stuff on him. Mom. Oh yeah, mom had like a desktop computer, big structure, and she had to jump on the on the computer keys to get a flag. And I think at the very end we were like about to run out of time. I think I was going to go down like a US chocolate slide into something, but like we ran out of time. But yeah, did you resign involved? Yes, yes, this was a an important part of my childhood. was like going on the show. But what? What we won? Just shifted everything. I won a Nintendo sixty four. Praise lydd changing a nintendo sixty four, a translucent TV. You remember those? Like they made everything translucent at the time, like computers, TV's, all that stuff. Yeah, but not politicians. Yes, correct. So boom had the TV and the Nintendo citty four. That's how I was like cool, I mean we won like a trip to Vermont. We won like a keyboard, a boogie board, whole bunch stuff. Didn't care once it, once the Nintendo citty four happened, that's all I cared about. You know, we'll have to have you back, because I'm sure it was disappointed to go to universal yesterday and not see any nickelodeon stuff. But in a couple years we're going to have super nintendo world here in in Orlando. You'll be able to live your in sixty four dream. That's crazy. They're yeah, now I was wondering if they were going to kind of like replace nicklody studios with something else. Is that? Is it going to be universalist doing it. So first brand new park. Oh, but just nintendo doing it. It's a lot. Okay, yeah, so they're going to have you doing it. You're being cryptic. It's your venture. Look out when I'm not in here hosting you, my other job. I mean, it's no big deal. Okay, I can't really speak about it right now. Man Holds. It's amazing. Now, were you living here in Florida? Yeah, I lived in winter haven. Okay, because you weren't born in Florida.

No, and we weren't born in Tennessee. Correct. So, like I'm curious kind of I guess your origin story and like kind of playing back like the s for you, because I mean like right now the mcu has taken over media and like origin stories are all the rave. Yeah, so, like if marvels like Kevin Figgy took your life and said, all right, we're going to play back deals childhood like S. Yeah, life, like, what was going on with all those moves? I mean California, Florida, Tennessee, who knows where else? Right, yeah, we don't have enough time for my origin story. It's so convoluted. It would be the greatest comic ever. The Kevin was the named Kevin Kevin Figgy. Kevin Figgy. That was too deep for me. I didn't know who that was and they probably could see it on my face. Nothing happened in my brain when you said that he's over there and see you. Okay, got it all right. So, yeah, I lived in nine states before I was nine years old. California, Texas, Kentucky, Illinois, Florida, New York and then Tennessee. That was all Tennessee was. When I was nine, like it was all those and then Tennessee. So I've lived like in every region. I've spent significant time in every region except the northwest, and I think that was like really big for my development to it's probably also why I make so many like connections and just because my experience is like extremely varied from like a very young age. But yeah, so obviously I was living in those states for like eight months to eighteen months. You know, some of those states. It wasn't a long time. I was only nine when I got to Tennessee. So I think winter haven was probably you know, when you're that young, like like one year is one seventh of your life, so it's a long time. You know, it's like it felt like a long time. I remember all my friends, I remember like the school, everything from you know, auditioning, Bir doubledare and all that stuff. But I think it probably was only, yeah, somewhere between nine months twelve months, maybe, you know, maybe like sixteen months or something like that. But yeah, I think all of those like I, especially since I was so young, I had different developmental stages in each of those states. Made friends in each of those states and kind of took and and just had like this thisli collage of a childhood, you know, of like memories and experiences to kind of pull from. And Yeah, I really think that's that's why my brain like makes connections between things that people might not see connections to. And Yeah, there's something to that, like moving around, always being the new kid. My mom always framed all of it as like like each move as a very cool, like opportunity and always framed it very, very in a very positive light. So it was always like an adventure. It was never was never upset about it or like scared about it or like sad about leaving friends. She was very good at like, Oh, you don't have to stop being friends and we're going to make new friends, we're going to like go to a new place. It's going to be like a new adventure, and so I yeah, I got good at it's like a gift and a curse, because I got good at leaving and kind of not feeling that sadness. You know, it's very easy for me even now to travel. If I had to move away like from even my like very best friends, I of course I'd be sad. I'm a human, but I am a human, I promise, but it wouldn't be like as hard for me as, I think the average person. You know. I would be like, we're going to see him again, because that's another thing mom would like. We would always take trips and whenever we take trip we see the people that, you know, we've built these relationships with, even if it was like...

...years before or whatever. My mom actually just came through like the other week and there they live in Arizona now. They haven't lived here in like ten years and she came to see us and then her and my grandparents went down to like the area that I grew up in, Tennessee in Bedford County, to see like all the friends that they had made there. So like that's just kind of like a recurrent rhythm in my life. So it kind of like effects. It affects a lot. Actually, the only time that the only time that I was upset that we were moving was from New York to Tennessee. That was the only move and it was because we had never well, we had lived, we had lived in the south, but not I was too young to like know any type of like history, like any type of racial tension or like history about the south. And but by the but in New York I was old enough. So, like you know, that was like, Oh, we're moving again. That wasn't that big a deal. But when he's that we were moving to Tennessee, that was a big deal. It was a big deal for my mom to it's a big I think it probably was as big a deal to me because I could see how like mom reacted. She did not want to live in south. She did she specifically did not want to raise like her son's in the south, and so she was kind of like scared and upset about that. Try to put on a brave face, but definitely scared of that reality for sure. Afraid of what exactly, just racial inequalities. Yeah, so, I mean they're that. You know, mom and dad born and raised in California. Their mom's parents going back three generations and dad's two generations, like in California. So they're like rooted there, you know. And the West Coast is, especially the bay area where they're from, very diverse and just doesn't have like, I mean has very little slavery history and a more Mild Jim Crow history than the south. I mean, it happened everywhere, but south is a whole different ball game, you know. So and you know, stuff has I mean as we know now, but I think you know, at the time that we were growing up, a lot of people were well, I guess a lot of people still deny it now, but a lot of people were very uneducated and denied that stuff was still going on. I mean in the s there were still people being drug behind trucks in Mississippi and still being lynched, and I mean police brutality, profiling. This stuff happens whether the cameras are there or not. I think that, you know, having everybody having access to high quality cameras, not only high quality cameras, but then Internet access to immediately be able to upload and share without gatekeepers, you know, without having to run to a new station and being like, I caught this on my cam corder or I caught this on my digital camera, we need you to run a story going to the newspaper. I have this information and it's just I'm going to post this right now. You know what I mean. And so I think that those barriers have come down and it's allowed people, it's allowed that stuff to kind of especially with the new general new generations coming up, like that's what has put it in the mainstream new cycle, not that is just now happening, but that that access to kind of like the like, the the gates to accountability have been lowered because people, like anybody, can upload video and stuff like that, which is now a new problem, because people can chop it, screw it, how wherever they want to do it, and put it out there for everyone to view it. Yeah, and it's like no longer is it, whether or not you're...

...saying it, it is. How believable is this? And Yeah, and I for you like, okay, you're moving around and like it sounds like your family loves the city, but I'm guessing you're moving to these places because of your dad's job. Yeah, his work right now to go into. So, like fast forward your story up to like after a high school, Post High School. You were telling me about some of your work, right, some of the jobs that you did, and you were working with stuff, and I feel like God was laying the tracks for you to become a rapper. Right, right, but he had you teaching kids, right, yes, he did. Organization called southern word. Shout out southern word in Nashville. Largest spoken word, spoken word Poetry Organization for the youth in the southeast. Shoutout southern word DOT ORG, southern word ot work. Who are you hoping goes to that website? Really, anybody, but especially people in the in like the Tennessee area, students, even students that aren't in that area, because it can will direct you to like the programs in your area. But essentially southern word is just, man, it's a lot of things, but it's it is essentially using spoken word poetry, songwriting, song production, hiphop, a lot of different interdisciplinary arts to educate people in underserved communities and also in in all communities. But there's just a heart for the underserved communities and students who have been overlooked for, you know, different reasons. So you know, a lot of students that have been given like people have given up on them. I've seen them really come into their own and blossom and and succeed, in large part to southern word and the specific poet mentors that they have been connected to within the organization. So, yeah, when I was working there, what a normal day would look like is sometimes we would go to a high school in the area and we would embed in an English class for an agreed upon amount of time during the semester and we would help, we would work with the teacher to help the students understand literary devices and different concepts within usually English language, language, arts reading. Sometimes, if the if the school had like an actual poetry class. And yes, some of the most real rewarding moments for me were kids who they felt like they didn't understand, you know, metaphor, similarly, a literation illusion, whatever the literary device may be. And it's because the curriculum for, you know, Inner City Nashville is calling for them to learn these concepts through Emily Dickinson and Walt Whitman and there's no connection to these kids culture or their lives or what's going on around them. Hasn't, you know? Yeah, like it's just not it's not relatable, you know. And so I could go in there and be like, you guys actually already know all of these literary devices, and they're looking at me like you're crazy, like they've already given up on the test to they're like, we know that, we're dumb, we're not going to we can't do it. And and that's that's the effect of like when the curriculum just completely misses on relatability and culture is like it makes the kids feel like it's an implicit statement that they're stupid because they're not connected to these artists or these concepts or these writers, you know. And I'm like, you guys already understand it. What you know? What's your favorite hip hop song? What's your favorite hip hop artists? That's why I would always start. And you know, they say somebody. They think I don't know. You know young boy. You know, no Nobo, young boy, like I know young boy's cool. You know, it's going crazy on youtube right now. You know, young boy. You know. And then, all right, what's your favorite song? What's your favorite lyric from it? You know, they tell me. I'm like, okay, boom, that's that's metaphor. that. Similarly, this is illusion, this is what he's alluding to, you know, and they're like you're lying. I'm like no, I'm like you already know it, like you probably write. You probably write stuff in the lunch room that has all of these literary devices, and then break it down to them, show them some songs they know...

...and break down the different literary devices. Show them songs that I've done, breakdown the literary devices, and it was just a way I saw so much like confidence, so much understanding and of course, the you know, the stuff that the school wants is raised, test scores and all that. And southern where the Statsus, southern word has our incredible speaks for you self. So don't Worre dot work. But yeah, man, and it, I mean, and it's more than that. To you know, we hosted like poetry slams all throughout the cities or all throughout the city, and we kind of had like a circuit that was set up like a sports season. So, Um, you know, there's a slam at this school and everybody comes and presents the stuff they've been working on in our different workshops and then the finalist from that go to this slam at, you know, at this theater or at this school, and then, you know, there's one and we actually were in five different counties, so it's like then it's like county against county, and then it all culminates into state of the word, which would be at one of the universities in Nashville, like in one of their auditoriums or theaters, which is just like a really cool thing for those students, something they haven't experienced. The mayor would come out, poet laureate would come out, you know, all these people to come support the kids and they go up there and and perform their pieces and then, you know, there's a winner and and somebody is crowned, like the youth poet laureate to Nashville, and then that would culminate into this nationwide thing called brave new voices in DC, and that's like kind of the the winners and and youth poet laureates from different organizations all over the country come there and, you know, meet the president just I mean it's like a really cool thing. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. Like, yeah, I mean if I was a kid in the Nashville area. Yeah, it's Nashville area only. I mean it's not only, but that's like where it's headquartered. But really, in regardless of where you are, I would be going to this website to try to see if my child could like get involved in that, because that's super cool. Yes, yeah, I mean I used to be a teacher myself. I went by Mr Dbot. Did you go by Mr No big deal? No, definitely, definitely not that. Okay, I think I just went by deal. They let us just kind of be artistic with our stuff, but that's cool. Yeah, no matter what. Not Mr no big deal. Yeah, it's not. That's not a thing. Never would be a thing. Just so everybody knows, one of the most rewarding things for me is like kids that have now grown up reaching back out to me have you and like saying you know, Mr Divo, you meant so much to me. Yeah, you know, like you you had this effect and you like shift to my Li like. Have you had that with any of the kids? Yeah, for sure. It's amazing. It's crazy the like bill over the like last few years, they've like found my music and then they hit me on instagram. They're like you probably like they feel like I'm super famous, which is not something that I feel like at all. It's not even something that's true. But you are. You don't get on the show if you're not. Okay, well, for Y'all's brand, I'll can see that, but it's not true. It's not true. But yeah, they you know, they feel like I'm extremely famous, you know, and they're like, you probably don't remember me. You know, this is my name and I'm I remember all of them, you know. I'm like, of course, I remember you, like, you know, say something specific to that student, and that's just like crazy to them. They're like, you know. And then some of them, some of them are artists in their own right now. Actually, a lot of them are artists in their own right now, and I, you know, I follow some of them. Some of them become producers and are excellent at it. You know, diamond stores, shout out diamond store. And Yeah, so I still have like that, even a working relationship with with some of them, and there's some on the horizon to so that's also because I always wonder like, okay, what what career path do you choose? You don't go to college or there's not a rap college, right, and like P did, he's not doing his show anymore to yea rabking, the band. Oh Wow, yeah, making it like that show was about you. Wasn't a dial on dialog, it was about me. died on dial on dial on. I always thought I was about me. Man, as I spit, hot fight, will you sell your name wrong. So it couldn't be about you, because his name is spelled correctly. So now I know who I'm dealing with. Okay, yeah, the upper hand right. So sorry, but you know it. I think that your music is what I'll say. Your genre is what teenagers...

...like. You know, you talk about Middle School, you talk about high school, like that is the stuff they're listening to. Like I do young life ministry, and those kids are like debot. Check out my playlist and they send me to the spotify list and it's mostly just trash wrap, like just vulgarity. Yeah, and like I'm like, if I listen to the edited version of this, it would just be a lot. It would sound like a flat line in the hospitaline wave. Yeah, I'm why, how are you? Like? And so I try to like send them, you know, yeah, stuff that I think is no the little more appropriate and no big deal, indie tribe, no big deal, and he try. Yeah, you know John Keith, Molly, the iceberg, DDA, my Kelv right. Yes, exactly what you're saying, exactly. So, like how is it now? Like you had that influence on those kids when you were teaching them poetry and now your influence has multiplied. So, like, what is that message that you are trying to get across to that next generation that's got indie tribe and no big deal in their ears and that's what they're listening to? Yeah, I think it's really cool to not only like yeah, hold on, my brain is recalculating. I think. I think it's cool to make music about love and enjoys, connection to God and how that affects your whole world and and the people around you. That's what that's how I would kind of define my music, and any tribes music from thirtyzero feet up. I think it's cool to make that, but to the to the students and to the kids, it's it's cooler to make that hand it actually work. You know what I mean? Like if I was doing it and it didn't work, they would be like they they would still they would still like like me because of our relationship, like with southern word, but when they see it and it works and it's like big to them, then they're like Dang, like it just makes it more attractive, you know. And obviously something doing numbers doesn't mean like that's not the validation necessarily that we're looking for, and that doesn't mean that that by itself isn't going to change hearts. But it's really cool. It gives you their ear, you know what I mean, when it is kind of doing numbers and when you move excellently, you know, more than the numbers, it's like moving correctly, like like, you know, like even this podcast, like this looks great, you know what I mean, like these, this is the right type of audio technology. These are the writing microphones, the lighting, like the room, all of that stuff. You could do the same exact podcast and we could be using like the corded like earbuds, you know, and like pulling the pulling the microphone up to the MIC like the little microphone on the court at earbuts. We could be. We can do that. We could put it out everything, you know. I mean there could be a phone point. It at me, you know, and we could put it out, but a lot of people there's so much noise, there's so much being promoted and comes across people screens and their ears every day that that's not going to break through the noise, you know what I mean, like it, the production value has to be right. So like, in the same way, it's really hard to grab the attention of their eyes and their ears and to be able to give them that message if the quality is not there, if it's not something that that can compete with. Kind of like you know, you were saying, there's a lot of negative messages and harmful messages. Right, if the production value on those negative and harmful messages is better than ours, why would they listen to ours? You know what I mean? So like when they come to my instagram and there like that was my teacher, like you know, they of course they have homies, they have friends like in their neighborhood who rap and and a lot of times it is those harmful and negative messages for and there's a lot of reasons behind that. You know, I'm not blaming anybody, but when they see what I'm doing and seeing and seeing how it's worked, how it's working and stuff, they're like maybe there's something to that, and they're much more, much more likely to listen to the actual lyrics in the message, you know, and I've seen that happen. So I think that may I think sometimes people may sleep on how much the methodology actually matters. You know, they're just like man, if my heart's in the right place and the message is good, like God's going to do something with that. He absolutely can, and he and he historically has, you know what I mean. But but at the same time, cutting corners and not being excellent and not using wisdom and not moving in preparation,...

...those are all anti biblical things. Like wisdom, preparation, moving in excellence, honoring the Lord with your first fruits, with the best of your gifts, those are all that's all biblical to you know, he really may take a podcast that just has the ear buzz and blow it up because he's got and that would be to bring him glory to say like look, there's no way you can attribute that to but also moving in preparation, wisdom, excellence. That honors him too, and and there's a very logical way that that cuts through the noise and attracts eyes and ears and excites people about the messages that you're trying to put out into the world to, you know, to inspire people to joy in love and connection to God and connection to people. HMM. Yeah, if this podcast does well, it is not because of the equipment, because I am the host. And let me just tell you, all glory will be to God if this thing it's allowed. How good the the equipment is. Is what you're saying. I'm saying I if you and your where, it's not mine. I'm the titanic of boats. Okay, I'm hitting the iceberg and it's not Mowgli. Okay, all right, I was gonna ask. Yeah, but I mean it. I think that, like our rebellious hearts sometimes lead us to those types of music or types of media. But sometimes, like you said, it's just the quality. Yeah, like it doesn't matter. The chick fil a is like this Christian restaurant. Like the riality is high enough to where people just want it right. And so if you can get into the minds and into the ears of the you know, the teenagers, the whoever, and then just say no, that's good music, like and then you start seeing because you know, we were talking about top five rappers. Yes, and when you talk to people and you ask them their top five anything genially generally, whether it be rap, rock pot whatever, Christian artists aren't going to pop up in those top five. And not not to say that the qualities not there, but there is something about that disconnect. And I mean we've all seen like the worst of the worst that Christian music and Christian media has put out. Like we've seen the stuff that makes us cringe a little bit, and it's like to honks and a Negro by DC talk. You're going to have to cut that out, aren't you? No, no, you're no. To Mars and a Negro by DC talk still up on streaming. Take the now, please. And why was that even made? It's like what twenty five? I'm going to say this because we have a lot of time, so I can riff on this for a second. So remember what you were going to say, but to like, I'm not gonna say to their defense, but so that I'm representing correctly what happened and not just completely one side villainizing it. Yeah, I actually know. I researched because I had the same question as you. How why did they go into the studio and record this? Okay, they didn't go into the studio and record record it. It's actually like a little right before cut to commercial skit type thing that DC talk did on the Arsenio Hall show in like thinking like around one nineteen ninety or something, I don't know. And it's literally the audio from that. Like they ripped the audio from that and like makes it a little bit and then put it on whatever album it was originally on. And then, yeah, but but then they re released and like remastered it and put it out and like two thousand and fifteen or something, which that's the bigger issue, like bere like I also, why was it on our Sinio? I don't know why. Our senior hall was cool with it. You know what I'm saying like that. So when I saw it I was like all right, for some reason Michael Tait thought it was lit. For some reason Arcinio like aired it. So maybe one thousand nine hundred and ninety was a different time. I was in a lot. Maybe something was going on during that time that made it kind of all right. But the remaster and rerelease and like still up and anybody who hears it now does not have that context. Like nobody knows that. Like maybe people knew it when you released the album in ninety one or whatever. So anyway, that's just so I fairly characterize it. They did not go into the studio and write this song and put it out. And I also think it was like couch between. They had some songs about like racial unity. Like like they had songs about racial unity and that was the glue that stuck it together. I know exactly. It doesn't really make sense, but I'm saying it was. They thought it made sense. It wasn't just flippant and malicious. They thought it made sense. But look, this is this is me say it. It doesn't make sense. Yeah, it shouldn't be there, but anyway, that was just that was for...

...free. I'm sorry I derailed your train of thought. Well, no, that's fine. I mean, Mr Geebone true story. I actually I actually introduce Ashley to it two nights ago in the car and I said, you know, hey, I because I saw it on your instagram. Yeah, and I was like you got to hear this, you've gotta experience this awkwardness. And she heard it. She's just like that's a Christian artist and I play. The next time I played, I was like this is Jesus Freak, this is like they're neumber ways, and she was like right, why? Yes, and I was like I don't know, yes, and I'm sure no big deal. Has Something to say about it, and you did. I did. So thank you and I hope you have something to say. Well, we'll get a little bit more back on track. So we've went through your childhood, we went through your after high school years, and now like it's the pinnacle of what happens to dial does he go into his rap career or does he just like maybe, you know, do something to say like more safe? Yeah, because you were, you can kind of got connected with Derek Minor, yes, and so now, I mean that's that's a big deal. Yeah, and you're like bumping shoulders with a lot of famous people. Is like. What was going on during that time? You were his road manager. Yeah, I actually interned at reflection music group. Shout out Derek minor and reflection music group. So I started out as an intern with the independent label that he owns, and I mean I was sweeping floors, you know, yeah, cleaning the studio one time, like like the pipes burst or something and I was like drying out the bat kitchen like like. I mean I was an intern, intern, you know, and just and also kind of just hanging around. Actually, the beginning of that story is I was at Mtsu. Shout out MTSU, great school. A lot of a lot of like Christian hiphop artists have some kind of connection with MTSU. Lecree went there for a couple semesters street symphony, which he's a grammar war winning producer for. Well, a ton of artist like Christian and mainstream, but he had a grammy with lcrae and some other people. He went there. Derek minor graduated from there. I graduated from there. Moli the iceberg graduated from there. There's people I'm missing too, but even even more producers in a RS and stuff. So it's like a pretty it's got a pretty cool roster of alumni within Christian hiphop. It also just has a huge alumni in the music industry in general, but for Christian hiphop it's it's a powerhouse to so I while I was at Mtsu I was kind of training to be an artist manager. So I was managing one of my friends at MTSU and Derek minor was coming back to Mtsu to speak to the Christian Music Society. So I was like we need to go to this and afterwards, like we need to try to go up to him and like meet him and hopefully show him something. Like we were just in like kind of grind mode, you know, and I was trying to, you know, be the artist manager whatever. So he came in, he spoke and I was like, all right, now's our chance. We need to go up there. And so I go up there and I introduced myself and say, you know, this is this is my artist and we'd love to like show you some music, and he was like. I was very nervous. He was way cooler than I thought. He was like yeah, like come on outside to you know, to the truck and will you know, I can play it and listen to it or whatever. I did not. I was not expecting that and now, being in the music industry for a long time, that's kind of crazy that he said that. But so we went out there, played the music. He was like, I don't even remember what song it was. I know it's my homie ryling. Shout Out Ryland exam I think at the time your name was saying Oh, or it might have been Yoshua. Serious, you have many different names, just like I have many different names, but shout out Ryland, the homie. Yeah, so we listen to the music. He was like yeah, man, this is really cool. But he was more interested in, like I know now, he was more interested in kind of mentoring us and, since we were local boys, like bringing us out to the studios that they had in that in Murfreysboro, where I live now, and kind of like I think he just saw something and I think the song probably wasn't good, but he saw I think it was like but he he saw like our how we were grinding, he...

...saw our spirit and definitely he has a heart to like develop younger artists and younger men in general, and I think he was like I want to bring these guys out to the studio, I want to kind of like build a relationship with them. He liked it. Ended up inviting us to like Bible study and different stuff, and that was like an amazing time because he was we like Dan, we get to go to Derrek myner studio, like learn about reflection music group, hang out and so that started like a whole thing and even more of my friends kind of like joined that group and that was like a formative time for us. And so through that process I liked the I think the next year at Mtsu you you need to have an internship to get the credit. I was getting a music business degree, so they want you to have an internship. You're really your junior and your senior year. I actually think I started in turning from them sophomore year. I want to get ahead of the game, and so, yes, started in turning there at RMG, like I said, doing an intern thing, and they liked my work there, so then made me a merchandise manager for the artist there. So I would like I'd be selling the Merch at their shows and I was in charge of like inventory and all that, and then eventually became a road manager. So it was like working my way up from that beginning time as Derek was putting out music in Armg was getting bigger and bigger. And Yeah, through that process of becoming a road manager, that's when, once I was there, which road manager, Merchandise Manager, road manager? That's when I started meeting all these different people, these bigger artists. He's famous artists in I mean Christian music in general and definitely and Christian hiphop. That's when I met LACRAE and Andy and actually that's not what I meant Andy, but it is when I met Lacrae and Tadashi Tripoli, the reach records guys. Really I met some so many people in Christian hiphop and Christian music. But when I met him and I was making music at the time, I was actually Derek was allowing us to use his studio. He ended up giving us an extra key, like I mean he was like extremely generous and and instrumental in all of our development at that time. But yeah, he just give us a key, like he trusted us that after spending like a lot of time with us, you know, and we were course stuff and he did. He wasn't even listening to it. He was just like yeah, y'all, like go experiment whatever. Yeah, through that process is when I met all those people. I had been making music in Derek's studio. He hadn't heard it yet and I also didn't want to, like while I was a road manager, that's what I was doing. If I was out on the road, I was a road managers to merchandise manager. I wasn't going to use it as a backdoor to show my music to Lacrae or show my music to whoever her, because I didn't want to be the guy who was like Yo, check out my mixtape. You know what I mean? They get that like all day and I knew that from being a road manager. Like man, yeah, I mean that takes humility, Ye, and patients it. Some of it was that, I'm not going to deny that. The spirit was working in those ways, and some of it was just I don't want to look like these people that I have to, as a road manager, deal with night after night, who are in the they're supposed to be in the meet and greet line and they're supposed to take a picture or get an autograph and they're there under that like guys, and then they get up to the table and while the artist is taking a picture, they're whispering in it. You're like Yo, like check out on mixtape or like can I freestyle for you, even though we've said, like, we're just doing picture with it, you know, and so I'm like how bad would it be for them to do that all night? Then we get back on the bus like hey, Yo, check out my big state. You know what I mean? Like that's gonna and people do that, but I'm like this is gonna burn the bridge, this is not going to be a good idea. So, but that ended up being and and then I would say the third components. That's just kind of part of my personality. Like it is it, you know, it is the spirit working in me and humility. It is me trying not to be the mixtape Guy. And then I just I don't want relationships to be based on like I don't want to just make relationships so that I can like take advantage of somebody's position. You know, that's just not me. So yeah, like, for example, I was I was on the road with Derek and mccrae and two thousand and thirteen for...

...winter jam. So that's like three months, four months, three or four months, a ton of shows, I can't even remember, like I don't even know. Feels like sixty shows or something like that. And never showed like Lacraix my music. Didn't tell him I was a rapper or have anything. No, and I was like gearing up to like put stuff out and didn't tell him but that end that ends up paying off, because whenever they did find out about my music, usually it would be from once at once. I did like once. Derek did hear my music. So all right, let me back up. So we're back in the studio now, right, and it's me and my friends in there. Derek comes in. He's left something in the studio. He opens out the door. He's like grabbing this thing. I'm just grabbing this whatever, and he's like WHO's this? I'm like this is me. He's like that's you, and I'm like why was he shocked? Oh, he hadn't. He just hadn't heard anything yet, and I honestly he probably was shocked because of the first music. Think that we showed him, you know, like okay, we had showed him that one like at the like outside mcsu and then like a couple times over the like when we were doing longer tours, like and shoutout cannon, the rapper cannon. We were like closer, like it's not that we were closer than me and Derek, but we were close. We are closer in age and closer in like he would like pick on me like an older brother, like Derek was like the boss, cannon, was like I think he's just one or two years older than me or something, and he was like always trying to haze me and prank me and stuff like that. Right, so I felt more comfortable like showing him the music because I knew it wasn't like all trying to leverage this relationship. It was we were like more I guess peers is a good term, like at least in like age and stuff. And so, you know, he had heard the music, and so I remember him playing a song on a long, like a long tour that we were doing that whole record label. I was still, I think I was an intern at the time, because the music was not good and cannon's got the phone and he's like controlling the music and he just like goes to one of my songs and I'm like petrified at the I knew the music wasn't ready at this time and he's playing it like for the whole label to hear, like we're or in like an expedition or something. He doesn't say anything, he doesn't say this is deal, he just plays it right and it's not good and nobody reacts at all, which is the worst. Like like the like the songs that had been playing. He had been playing bangers. So everybody's like, you know, having a good time, like a road trip. Plays that everybody kind of like, and then it just kind of like goes silent. And then now people are just kind of riding like before, like everybody you know, and now everybody just kind of like looking out of the window and stuff. I'm like he's like dying. He's like trying to contain himself, as he always is, and I'm like this is the worst. And nothing happens, like he doesn't say it's me or anything. It just goes to the next song and then people are like, you know, jamming again whatever, and so it's like that was weird. I actually told the story to Derek like years later and he was like, I didn't even know I had ever heard your music, and I'm like yeah, because it when he played it was bad and I didn't want anybody to know and Kennon didn't say anything. So I was just like he and there thought that was hilarious. He's I didn't even know your music played. I was like yeah, that's that's that was the Lord. But but yeah, so the first time that Derek knew that he heard my music was in the studio and that's when I was ready. By that time the stuff was more alish. We had had time to kind of like figure it out. The song was called Indie and it was kind of like the beginning of also, like the philosophy of any tribe was like in that song or whatever, and he thought it was dope. Couldn't believe it was me. He tweeted it out. That was like when I got my first kind of like introduction to the fan base of Christian hiphop. Like, Oh, you know, the fans are like, Derek minor just tweeted out this new artist, is new song, I haven't see listen to it. Start getting fans that way. So when he started kind of showing all the people I had already met in the capacity of road manager or merch manager my music, then they were much more likely to like support and share because they're like, wait a minute, we've known this...

...guy for years at this point and he never tried to push his music on us like that made them want to like share it and support it, especially since, you know, they thought it was good. You know. So they like paid off a lot to not be the mixtape guy and just to build these relationships behind the scene genuinely without trying to leverage them and really serving them through being like merge and road manager and whatever. And then, you know when, when, yeah, when they heard the music, they like immediately supported. Laque was putting it on his instagram stories and Propertyanda. I remember when propaganda retweeted it. I was like, oh my gosh, what's going on? Like, you know, it was like every camp in CSH was Christian, Christian hipop was supporting and I was like man, this is this is amazing, you know. So, yeah, and you were so good that Derek fired you. Yeah, he did. That's that's a funny sentence, but yeah, dare yeah, so I was road managing. I was made at road managing, meaning I was average. I think that. I think I had some good runs, I made some pretty big mistakes, and so he sat me down one day and he was like, do you want to be a road manager, you're like your whole life, or do you want to be an artist, like what would you actually rather be? And I was like, well, you know, I would, in a perfect world, I'd be artist, but it's too risky, you know, I've gone to school for music business. I think I can do this, you know. So I just stay a road manager who was like cool, you're fired. It's like I'm looking like but and he's like, yeah, I know, yeah, that almost crazy. And he's like, he's like I know that you won't really pursue becoming an artist if you have a safety net. He said, I don't know anybody who's made it who had a safety net or who had a plan b like you gotta, so you're fired. And and I mean it worked like that, like when he when he said that and fired me that following year I put out three projects, like in one year, in one year, smoke signal, summer camp sessions and no Dylans, all in one year, in two thousand and fifteen, and and that was, I was going to say a large part, but not a large part, like the whole part was because he did cut that safety net, HMM, and I lost that streaming income, so it was like time to go. You know, had to work a full time job while I was making all those and that's where southern where it came in, which we talked about earlier. But yeah, I mean, and that's actually where those two combined, because, like the the knowledge that I got from for the music business and for marketing and all that side of it, from Mtsu and from largely from reflection music group, and and Derek, combined with him cutting that safety net, combined with working with literary devices and writing and the energy of the students every day in southern word, just like all came together. Yeah, for Real, like and man, yeah, cut, cut your safety now so that you could make suicide net a. and he, like he sparked the fire that has now created the holy smoke film on Mr Debo. Like, I feel like it's crazy to hear that even back then you were thinking about any tribe. Yeah, and like now, like here we are, like upper hand. Right, just came out a couple months ago, which has been all I've been listening to since May. Man, and now let's keep it going with a marvel origin story. Like any are the COTS in America. Okay, I'll take that, which is what you told me. Yeah, you know, I don't. I don't want anybody in no in any tribe to like come at me right around the leader. But yeah, they call you the cats in America. Right, I feel like you have this this brain. They came up with that. Yeah, that's not the people like John and Moli and Mikel had a discussion about if we were marvel characters, who will he be? And they decided I was Captain Americas. Who are they? So Dj Mikel v is the Hulk, which, yes, makes pervery sense. Angry John Keith is spider man, the funny guy. Yeah, the the extremely skinny, funny young guy, like there's a lot of like he's the youngest, the skinniest, the funniest. He's very versatile to like. Spider Man's extremely versatile, like maybe the...

...maybe the most versatile like of the superheroes, you know, like because he's super strong, he's fat, asked, he has spidy since like all the web stuff, you know what I mean. Sometimes says things that he probably shouldn't he you know, I'm saying, Tony Stars got like keep me in check, right, right, right, right, like Ummm yeah, and then Mowgli is Dr Strange because he does weird things with his hands. I I I'M NOT gonna lie, I don't know doctor strange that well, but they all agreed on it. They know more, especially John and Mikel like no marvel way more than I do. But isn't Dr Strange, like a genius, like really smart? He yeah, I mean he is a genius. Okay, very smart, but I would put smart on like a Bruce Banner or I mean, yeah, yeah, remotely. Can't be the whole. I just I just think of him as like doing weird stuff with his hands and wearing a cape and like being mysterious and kind of like know for a fact. If John Keith was in here and you said, I mean, I just know him for doing weird stuff for my hands, John, we be like yes, yes, exactly, exactly. Yes, that's Moldli, like he would definitely, he's like the Ricky Bobby of Christian hiphop. Yes, but that, but that on it out. I know John would say say that. Yes, absolutely, John, yes, absolutely, and then he would accidentally slip into a denzel impression and yeah, anyway, yes, but and like white spider man, everything that I've seen with indy try like, outside of hosting this show, I do community with be tob marketers, like business and business marketers, and so we've been talking about our marketing team, this book called primal branding, which we spoke about the other night and I like, when I go through the seven elements of it, I'm like they're doing it. Wow. So so, okay, I have the seven elements there, because you said you hadn't read the book. I so. Yeah. So number one, creation story, like how, how did any tribe form? So give me like a like a spark notes of okay, of that. There's two iterations of any tribe, or actually there's three. The original one in two thousand and fourteen was me just kind of like uniting a bunch of artists, interdisciplinary artist from Mtsu, kind of like where the New People? Where the where the underdogs? Where the little guy? We're not. None of us are signed, none of us are like part of big corporations. Let's pull all of our resources and our creativity. We also like aligned with values and like message and stuff. So let's pull all of our resources and creativity to so that we can break through the noise of like the mainstream, essentially, and just like kind of practice. Philippians two in you know, not moving in ambition or conceit, but considering others is more important than yourself, not looking out to you're only your own interest, but also the interests of other so let's give each other platforms whenever we can. That was like the original thing. And then as I got into music and got further into music and release my first projects, then there were Christian hip hop artist who aligned with that vision and wanted to kind of make an like an indie tribe proper, meaning like a set roster of people where that philosophy like was the epicenter and then like that philosophy could go out to more people or more people could be a part of it, because that's how it was. Originally wasn't a set roster, was an idea, philosophy, a lot of people who participated. was just open anybody who wanted to be under that. And then it was like let's make a set roster me Mowgli, the iceberg and Jerrymana originally, and then we the next year we added what up R G to that same concept, same idea, and then as time went on, we actually we started that first or that, sorry, that second iteration of any tribe with the set roster, Mowgli, me, Jerry R G at the beginning of our music careers. So we aligned like with our messages and just like our personalities as friends and we just immediately did it. But we didn't kind of know ourselves as artists or where we wanted our careers to go, what our specific callings within Christian hip hop were at the time. And so as time went on we started to see, like for Jerry and for Rg, my opinion is that they, like we all, knew ourselves better as artists in a few years and the goals and the places we wanted to take our artistry and Indie tribe. Indie tribe for me and...

Mowgli fit that like, but for Jerry and rg it didn't fit what they wanted to do. They didn't know that at first, you know, we all did it in earnest, but last time went on it was like, this isn't really what we want to do with our careers and we're on a different trajectory. And so they left. And then John and Mikel we we always say we had the luxury that that luxury that we didn't have with Jerry, with Jerry and Rg and me and Mowgli, which was we there was no history of our career and we just we just immediately made it when we first started out John and Mikel during that whole like three to four year period we had luxury of just knowing them as people and then seeing how indie tribe, like the direction of any tribe, was going without them being on that. So when they decided to join last year, they had four years of understanding the Indie tribe philosophy, of being friends with us, of learning themselves as artists. So so their decision to join was a much more informed decision than the original for and that's not anybody's fall, it's just a time thing, you know. And so when they joined, as we've seen, kind of with like upper hand and stuff, it's like it was just like it fit like a glove, you know, because it was just an informed decision. So yeah, that's kind of how like any trump yeah, nice, and I mean they figuring out like the condensed version of that, not on a podcast, will definitely be like whenever you guys speak to your creation story, just like having that quick like yeah, couple lines right. I was just like, you know, something catchy, something cool. Yeah, the second element that he talks about is like you're the creed, if your mission statement, your belief, like here a young married Christian. We want to see every child in the foster care system here in America be put into a Gospel centered home. Nice also, you like wrap that up. It's like nice and sweet. So, like what would be indie tribes mission statement. Right. See, this funny, because you feel like we are executing all of these things, but we're not. Like I don't, we don't, we don't. We don't have these, but I think, I think that we had, we have the what would be distilled into these things. We just haven't done the work of like, Oh yeah, what's the elevator hitch of each of these things? So at me and maybe that's something you guys figure out. Yeah, I know that. Like our and I think I told you this off camera earlier, but like our overarching thing is to model and push people into a joyous and loving relationship with God and with people. Boom, boom. I feel like it could be more concise, a little bit more sure. You know what I mean, but that's that. That's what I'm saying. We have the things behind it, but we haven't like made the here. It is, you know, like like like our church is Multiply Gospel Change for broken people on purpose. MMM, that's like what you're talking about. We any chart doesn't have that, like boom, but you will mighty drought, I feel like. I feel like by the end of this week, like you're gonna you're already thinking like it be done by the time you get back home. Okay, so number three, for primal branding, is easy for you guys because it's icons and I see it everywhere. And for horses. Yeah, running, yeah, running to the left. So they're not like old school Super Nintendo Games, going to the right, right, they're going to the left. Yeah, is that just because the EMOJI goes the least? Because the EMOJI gost you wanted to go to the right? I don't care. I don't care which way they go. I was going to say they're on the move. The thing is that they're on the move. That's because, yeah, yeah, tribe on the move, which is number five. Sacred words. They you ribe on the move. Tribe on the move. You guys already have it. Yeah, that, yeah, we do have that one, and I that's a well established one. And I will say this goes with number four, rituals, which is something your fans come to expect from repetition every time I see one of your videos and it's like boom, like I don't like it's serious. Yeah, you're like, if you're not a part of the tribe, scroll of this isn't for you. Oh, yeah, serious, and I'm like, Oh, yes, about that. Half it here. It's got is spicy. Yeah, I am proud of that intro. I like that intro. We have what? We have a lot of them, though, because we have like the tribe on the move tag. We have the horses running sound at the beginning of projects. We have Chelsea saying I really like the people were becoming. Yeah, that's Chelsea. Is Chelsea. Yeah, yeah, very good. Yeah, and yeah, we have a lot. I have that with the videos. Yeah, so, okay. And then the last two. Okay, so pagans is number six. So like Agans, pagans, like Mac has PC. You know, democrast have Republicans pay. So...

...that's a fire term. I love this. So it you know, it's like the haters like every well, not even hate, it's just like who is the opposite of Indy tribe, any tribe, and then there is, yeah, there's indy tribe and then there's in well, major labels. That would be one. Those are those are some pagans. HMM, okay, is it funny just because you call it major labels pagans? I really like the term pagans. I I like that they use in the book, but it's also a slang from Toronto. Well, it's actually probably from the Caribbean, but so it made its way into Toronto slaying because of the Caribbean influence. But a pagan is kind of they're like an opposition, and so it makes it makes sense to me in a lot of way. I'm like, Oh, this is a cohesive term that I really like. I'm I love words like I mean you're a word Smith. Yeah, I know dout about him. So like hearing it as well as a branding term and knowing like it's like roadman slang, is like making me really happy. Yeah, it is one six click. No, they're not getting us. They're not pagans. No, no, well, unless, unless maybe the term is broader than I think because, like you said, apple and PC. I'm feeling like those are like there was some heat with that competition. Well, like starbucks and Duncan doughnuts would probably be pagans. But if you're a coffee drinker like Ashley will go to either one. Yeah, but but sometime are more passion. Looks at Duncan, though, at different than we would look at one, one six. We look at them as those are the homies, like we are. We just did a song for their playlist. They're going to they're they're like promoting like our festival. You know, I mean. So, okay, that's that's where I feel it. I don't feel like starbucks would promote a new Duncan Lotte, whereas one six they will promote our new our new stuff. Yeah, they'll promote your new latte and I'll promote it a lotte if I came out with a lots a I know for sure. I know for sure that on six, reach records would promote my latte a hundred percent. Okay, everything, everything that we've said before, this doesn't even matter. We've all let up to this moment. This is the question I've wanted to ask this entire time. Will we ever get to see a one, six and Indie tribe rap battle or a full Collab, a full collap I mean that might be too many people on one track, but like anything where all of you come together, a mega mix. Yeah, so like the the six click proper, like the ones that did a project. Choose their for best, therefore, and us for yes, that's a great idea. Maybe eat four tracks. Want a one V one? Four different tracks? Wow, you really want it to be a battle, though, like you don't want it to be cooperation, which is what we're about. You want it to be competition. No, I just wanted to be good, fire content. What if it is a collab? What if it's one of yours with one of theirs coming together and you do four tracks that way? That'd be cool. And then and in the last one has everybody on it. Yeah, I mean this is literally going back to what we talked about in the beginning of Jay Z and Lincoln Park. Yeah, coming together, that would be fire. I'm I am massively open to that. Yeah, and then number seven, and, and this is easy one, is just leaders. Yeah, when people think of any tribe, I think they think yeah, no big deal. Yeah, I said it, so you didn't have to. Thanks. So you talked about independent versus being on a label. Yes, that's what any tribes all about. As indecent it, but at one point you're with capital. Correct. You even mentioned it like nothing against capital. Yeah, you know, but that I dropped Labor after your capital. I dropped lowercase to let you know it ain't about capital. That's what I said on holy smoke. That's the bar. HMM, that's the bar on holy smoke. And drop a bomb. Put a bomb sound effect right here in the podcast. Go Google flex bomb and drop the flex bomb right here. And and when capital came after you, I know that they weren't the only ones. They wanted to sign you, right. So did it feel like a college sports draft? They were actually the last ones who wanted to sign me. It. There was like a whole this is just fact. This isn't me flexing. There was. There was like five labels that we're trying to sign me. After I released canopy, my first album. It did well on itunes. I think it hit heat seekers on billboard, and so there was like a little bidding war and capital actually...

...wasn't part of it. It was like reach, and then Sony, three hundred entertainment, which is crazy that three hundred was interested at all. Three hundred is like me goes young, the gonna that type. It's very successful label. Did Not think they'd be interested in me. But yeah, some others and capital actually happened because Marty shout out social club misfits and Marty, Marty for president. What's up? Marty was like, he was like, man, all these labels are hitting you now. What is capital offering? And I was like, nobody from capital was hit me. He's like what? He was like, hold on, and so he liked. Apparently he sends tree tops from the canopy album to his NR and like within fifteen minutes his NR is like contacting me like hey, like, I think we should get coffee whatever. I'm like, Whoa, that was wild, you know. So it was a weird situation because I had friend like with with a big label, it's just a label, it's just a business deal. With the independent labels, reach reflection music group, it's like it feels more personal, right, and I had these, as we've already discussed, these really good friendships at both of these labels and it kind of felt like it felt like if I chose one, that that would be like choosing one friend over the other, you know, and that it. Yeah, I didn't. Capital was like Switzerland or Sweden, or whichever one is neutral. I was like, I'm just going to take this like deal. That doesn't have any kind of connotation at all. It's just like paperwork. We're just doing a deal. You know. That was the that was definitely the main driving factor. Okay, and as for picking capital versus the indie labels, picking capital versus the other major labels that were in play, was capitals. Deal was better. there. The their head R was he is just a much better R in every way, like he makes the label seem more attractive. He is. He meets you, dis into you as a person's name is Brad. Shout out Brad. And so there wasn't really a comparison between the major labels. Capital obviously stood out. The Real, the hardest decision was the one you just talked about. Was Reflection reach capital. That, I mean, I was stressed out. I was stressed about that, like Chelsea knows. Yeah, but I ended up just choosing capital just to be like, I don't want any other connotation to be attached to me signing than just and when you signed with capital, was in f already blowing up with capital Atal. Yeah, he was trying to think of where he was in that process. He was definitely already big. I think therapy. That's the name of the album, I think. I think therapy had already come out, which was like super huge. It was. Yeah, he was already big. Okay, he was big. But then, like you, when you were with capital, like you left, which is surprising because, like everything that went all with Kesha, and I feel like labels just kind of like have that in the contract that you can't leave. Right. You were able to leave, and I'm and you said the other night that was because it just wasn't working for you the way that it does for the it's not that labels are bad, but it just wasn't working the way that it was within up, and that kind of like had my mind all twisted. And maybe it's just because I don't understand how labels work. Right. Yeah, like like break it down for like people like me that don't know anything about labels, like what does that mean for an artist, and how can it how can it be good, and how can it not work out? Sure, yeah, and that and that's one of the reasons that choosing capital was the correct decision, because I I can almost guarantee you if I signed to another major other than capital C mg, that they wouldn't have let me out of my contract. That's just like this. The standard thing that happens is if you sign your name, I signed for Sixty Masters, essentially sixty songs. However, I wanted to package that, whether it was EP, singles, album some combination of that. I had to give them sixty songs. I did like thirteen and in any other major label situation they'd be like, you have to finish out your contract, like you can't, we're not going to let you leave. You know, sometimes they'll. They'll let somebody buy you out of the contract, like another label who has a lot of money can pay...

...that label to release you. But it's it's the right is belongs to the label once you sign it, to release your an unless your contract says both parties have the the right to renew or not renew. It's it's almost always just the label. I try to get written into my contractor be both sides, but they were like we're not doing that and nobody ever does that unless you're like Taylor swift or something, and so choosing capital was the right move because they at the end of the day, they were just gracious that I'd there was no like leverage. That I had to be able to leave because I was unhappy with that year. They had all the leverage, but they I had to have like multiple meetings with them because they really wanted me to like stay longer, but they said, you know, up I had. Yeah, I had a lot of like cold hard facts, like, I don't feel like the growth from my first album, which was independent it, to my second album, which was on capital CMG solar. I feel like that that was that growth, was the trajectory I was already on and that it would have essentially the same thing would have happened whether I was on the label or not. And they, you know, they looked at the numbers and they essentially agreed and said, we never want to be a labeled at where the artists feel like they're trapped. So you know, we're just going to release you with no strings attached. So that is not the typical story and that's why I don't it's not personal, it's not a horror story or anything like that. I'll never take that away from them, but I had, like I was unhappy with my deal on a label that is gracious and is willing to do that. So I'm like, how much worse is it in just a standard situation? You know, as far as breaking it down for for artists who don't understand, essentially signing, signing a deal with a label is saying, I will give you ownership of what I have created, I will give you ownership of the revenue strength of the lion share, the vast majority, in effect all of the ownership of what I have created, because I believe that your marketing ability and your branding ability is so strong that you're going to blow me up and multiply my platform to the point that I don't even miss the ownership that I gave you. If you can't say that with a hundred percent certainty, then there's no reason to sign a deal. Now that might sound very ominous, but that does work a lot. That, like any artist that you see on a label that is successful, that's what happened. You know it. Pick anybody just to be ride, it doesn't matter. Like Taylor, your favorite artist that's on a label, if they're truly successful. That's what happened. They gave up the ownership and the label did that. They knocked it out of the park. They multiplied their platform and marketed them so well that now their platform is ten, two thousand and fifty, a hundred times what it was before was on the label, and that ownership that they gave up was completely worth. The platform, the money, the the up, the ability to create better art because of the money that they put into the production side of the deal. It worked out. But that's the only thing. Like you should not be signing a deal because of name recognition. You know, you know, just because it's, you know, bad boy records or tde or whatever it is. You know that's not true. If td wants to sign, you sign every single time. It doesn't matter what the terms are. If Kendrick Lamar's label wants to sign, you sign it. Which sign today with td? I was signed today with if you were, if you like, if you had a if you this have my mind, were you rob the mask up over your head and you were really punched from tde and you were like sign this, we own everything, I'd be like, here you go, it's like all of my branding with any tribe piece. See you later. Yeah, no, and I and then I would facetime Jean Michel and Mowgli and they would a hundred percent support it, especially John Yes and John would be mad that I that I didn't like pitch him, but I actually probably would pitch him,...

...but not John. Not. What did you say? John? And MOWGLI would support. Everybody would support. Author. John would be mad that it wasn't him. Is what I'm saying essentially. Yeah, that's not tider man the I would not sign. It would have to be good terms, but I would really I would really want to sign that deal, but it would if it wasn't the terms, I wouldn't sign it. That's just I right knows. But yeah, I see people sign for, yeah, like brand recognition or like their their favorite artist is on that label, or because, Oh yeah, there's this like prevailing thought that like independent is minor leagues, you know, D League, and and in signing to a major let or just signing a deal in general is like MLB. You know what I mean? Now you're like now you're really doing it, now you've made it, now you're really a professional, and everything else is, you know, underneath that. And that's that's not true at all, you know. But and and labels know that. People think that and they let people think that. I mean, I'm not I don't think that's evil or anything. I think that's just like, you know, business. I think like a lot makes sense, but but the labels know that. They know that's why they wrote. Like when they're according you to sign a record deal, they roll out the red carpet. They'll take you to any restaurant they man, they had me out in in underground like restaurants in Nashville that I didn't even know existed. It with like all these artists there and stuff. I'm like, where are we right now? Like I've I've lived in middle Tennessee since I was nine. Literally, where are we right now? Like I didn't even know this existed. You know, and HMM, kind of promise you the world, you know, and sometimes they believe they can deliver. I think with with my situation, you know, I was told like, man, we see you as like an international, like rap star, essentially, like bigger than everybody in Christian hiphop. Like like somebody literally was like like we could get you to the top of Christian hiphop. That would take like maybe a year, but but we're but that's not even what we're looking at. We're looking at like making you like Kendrick Lamar. You know what I mean like and I and I don't I don't really think it was like hot air. I think I think they've had a lot of success, a ton of success in worship and in CCM, and then Inn f happened, and I think that made them be like we can do anything. And that's not what happened, you know, but that's what that was, what the conversations were, you know. And again these conversations are happening in these amazing spots with these amazing people, you know, didn't even know existed. The spots. I knew the people existed and and they just couldn't deliver on those, which is why I was unhappy. But that doesn't give me any legal leverage, like that's the thing. They can say all this stuff, and I think that's what like gets people wrapped up. Is like now, and even now I know, like the only thing you should be listening to is what is in the contract, like like have a lawyer that I understands that to and be like okay, they're telling you you're going to be, you know, drake, but what's in the contract? Do we have budget transparency? This is getting into the weeds and getting technical now, but still budget, transparency, length of term and track record with your specific genre, if you're in a subgenre, your specific subgenre, because the similarities between me and NF and at rap, like we both wrap. But rap is so big at this point that that's not that's not enough, like it has to be much closer, like musically, culturally esthetic, targeted fan base, demographic information. It has to be way more specified than just okay, you guys both rap, you know, and so, yeah, that's somewhat of a breakdown. I mean, I could talk about labels and independent for hours, but yeah, and I just think it's good because I think a lot of our listeners for this episode specifically, are going to be people, you know, that are maybe trying to pursue rap as a career, hiphop as a career, you know, like upandcoming inspiring artists, or maybe they're just like in the music world and they're they're trying to figure out because it's like, like I said,...

...there's not really a school around, I mean other than maybe Emptsu, yeah, which it sounds like the path. If you're trying to get into the music world, you got to go to Mtsu. Maybe before that do some slam poetry classes, and it's just like knowing about labels, like trying to figure that out, like I never even thought about that as an artist of like choosing the independent route, because typically I always thought of like, if you're a musician, you're not making a lot of money, probably before you make it big. And so a lot of them look at the label as the bank. Yeah, and and they're going to flip the the cost, but they got to remember, like you said the other night, it's a loan that you're taking out. Like you are taking out the loan. Yes, they're going to cover your cost. Yeah, but now you're going to be paying that back. So now, in our world with Youtube, ticktock and instagram and ways to kind of get your music out there, like I feel like it, because back in the day, like there's no way to get your music really out there right as an independent artist, but now, I mean there is. I mean you're once this drops, the the smoke will have clear from holy smoke festival. Yeah, but like you're a couple week and a half away right from doing your very own festival, yeah, which is huge. I mean there's going to be basketball, three on three basketball. Yep, back celebrity basketball tournament. We're going to have the world premiere of the Indie tribe movie. Movie. Yeah, and you try movie. It's a movie. Yeah, somebody's been tuned into the to the social media. That's right. Any try, just a doc commentary, guys, it's not. It's not. We're talking Sun Dance. I'm so ready. Hands. Will we be able to see the movie? Is it pronounced cans? The the movie festival in France or whatever, cans, cans. We're talking Sun Dance. We're talking cans. We're talking a movie. Due, I do I have the privilege of watching this, like on Netflix or Hulu? We Amazon? Old, no, Joe, we or do I have? You're trying to. We're trying to. You know, we're figuring something now with Amazon prime. Okay, Joe, but if I'm at the festival, I'll be able to see the movie. Yes, people at the festival see it first, see it with us, see it with the director. cinematics. Shoutout cinematics. HMM, shoutout cinematics. Um, yeah, because I want to be there. Darians, I have seen your live like I think people need to understand, because let's get this straight. Like I'm I am a Christian who listens to Christian rap, but sometimes when I think of a live Christian rap concert, I don't think of the crowd getting rowdy. Okay, right, right, but when I have seen your live performances, I mean people are getting taken off in stretchers, I think, like these kids are. It's like a mosh pit, like I can from the world of Christian hardcore, like slam danced like for today. August Burns are ready face the day. Shout out, yeah, and at them out, and I think that your live performances might be wilder. Yeah, like, yes, like is your fans would crush a mosh pit. I mean maybe that needs to be the challenge. Maybe those were the Pagans there that the fan bases, like a mosh battle, like a wall of death. Yeah, I'm in at each other. I right, right, I don't know. I mean I see, I see you guys as allies, like the hardcore kid, like rass kids. Always saw like hardcore, and I'm going, I don't know all the subgenres, but as allies, like those are the cool those are the cool kids on the other side of the spectrum. You know what I mean? There was like a mutual respect, you know, because it's like well, now, now a lot of that stuff is pop, but it was the fringe genres, you know what I mean? It's like you got all, you got the pop and mainstream, and it's like, Oh, you got the we were looking at you guys like Oh, okay, that's that's some flavor over there. All right, like, and I've always felt respected by the EMO and hardcore kids, you know what I mean? Yeah, KB did a song with somebody from the hardcore world, probably. Yeah, I believe that we will win below. WHO's on that? I know that song. I don't know. This is going back to my emo days when I had like a bang that came down to my chin, yes, but okay, anyways, what I really wanted to do is I want to try to get on stage at holy smoke fest. So I wrote a bar. I'll see if I'm good enough. Okay, so we'll see what you think about this. All right, this is might just flop. A I'M gonna be honest with you, man, please be honest. Okay, this might you when you like first presented something to Derek minor and he was like yeah, yeah, take you on tour with me, but you're not a rapper. Yeah, actually, like, yeah, we like. When we first presented something that Derek Minor, his response was, let's do a Bible study. So so it so. If it's so, you'll know. If you'll yeah, you'll know. It flopped. If I'm like Hey, man, you want to dig into the word a little bit together, look, a Bible study with no big deal and Chelsea, I'm there for it. If you just want to be the Raffki to my Samba, I'm there for okay, wow, all right, yeah, I know,...

I know. You talk about Raffici in your album. Okay, so here we go. I don't have a beat. So's a Cappella. I got you right now. You're chilling like Dylan. Here's the deal. DEBOT gonna flow, deal or no deal, it's the rhythm that I'm feeling. No big deal on my show. So now you know who you're dealing with. The MC of Y, MC at an a at the end, like the village people orphan we're trying to set free. Okay, okay, okay, can we get some claps in the studio for that? Pass in the studio. LEX MOOMB right here. All right. So the wordplay was there. MMM, the word play, like, legitimately, I liked it, like it was all like this one thread, the little y Mc a thing you did with the village people. You know what I mean? Like word play was there. I'm gonna give the word play a seven. I'm gonna give the wordplay a seven, I'm gonna give the rhythm a five, I'm gonna give the delivery a one. That's right, I hear man. Hey, look, Mama didn't make it. Okay, so we're play with there. Okay, so my rap career is not going to make it. I can only hope to just be there as a fan. Speaking of fans of you, we've got Chelsea here. Yeah, we're going to bring her in, we're going to get her hooked up and let we're going to talk about marriage and some fun stuff. So let's rock and roll, let's get it okay, now that we got a Chelsea in here, we're going to hear the real, real so I want to know, Oh wow, what was going on behind like what goes on behind the scenes of because everybody hears your music, everybody sees what you post like on social media, like what you know? We want people to see. But like what's going on behind the scenes of all this? Like, I'm sure it's hard work. Yes, it's a lot of work. The his specifically for him, but music industry as a whole. The Hours. Yeah, that so specifically for him, like in wrap and stuff, but music industry as a whole, the hours are weird. They're not normal hours and I work a normal job, so I'm working normal hours. But you know, he there people he worked with sometimes don't even start working until the evenings, and so there's a lot of trying to figure out a balance of how we can have dinner together and have plans and go to bed together and, you know, be on the same sleep schedule. Those are, I'd say, pretty consistent things we're having to work through and figure out and figure out the balance of and just the fact that he doesn't stop working like he does. He works really hard to try to like carve out time for that. But his phone is his work. It's like that's his personal phone, that's the phone I call them on, but it's also the phone that people are sending him text and hey, we need your mix notes right now or, you know, hey, like literally yesterday we're at universal and an email comes through and it's like urgent publishing request, and so we're like he's like, Hey, I got a call right now, you know. So it's like we're even in the middle of a vacation where it's like it's just us, we don't know anybody else around, like we can do whatever. It's like there's still work and it's he you know, he's independence. So He's an entrepreneur to like he's he runs this business and that is demanding in and of itself. So that's kind of like it's just kind of constant. Even like leave flying out to come here. The night before he was working to zero pm trying to get stuff done, and then the morning we were flying out, he had an interview like at thirty in the morning. We had to leave the house at ten o'clock to get to the airport. So that's just kind of the normal we have to run with and it's just like always on. Even when you come on vacation, it doesn't stop like right, yeah, and you know, at you have to have your you have to have your own like boundaries, though, because otherwise that's something that like as an independent artist, as an entrepreneur, that's just that's something that comes with it. You're either going to have you're going to set hard and healthy boundaries or you're going to be working around the clock. You know if I mean if you have the entrepreneurial spirit. You know, I mean some people. I get if. Yeah. Anyway, if you're an entrepreneur and you're really doing it, that means you're like a very self driven person, a self starter. You dream big and then you execute right. So those are good things, but without hard and healthy boundaries, becauuse of those personality traits like you have, the the danger is being being...

...a work of Holli and ignoring the people right in front of your face and in, you know, around you, and community and and not and projecting, especially as a believer, projecting this image of, you know, following Christ and and loving and being sacrificial and being patient and Joyce and kind and all of the all of the things that Jesus is and that we strive to be, putting that on social media, projecting that and then not giving that to your spouse, to the people you do life with, your church, you know, and not even walking that way before God, you know. So I'm still learning. I'm not perfect. At it. She was gracious and saying I work, I work hard at trying to have those boundaries, but it's a work in progress, like trying to cultivate those like what are times that the phone is just not in the room, the phone is off, days that I'm just off it, because as as your career grows, it starts to you know, when I feel like when I first was trying to like was taking a serious look at boundaries, like we went through this book called the common rule with our church and it's largely about that, about making God honoring hard and healthy boundaries in a lot of different facets. When I first started looking at that, it was actually easier than now to have those boundaries because less was going on in my career at the time. It felt like a lot or like less consequential things. That's better to say it's the same amount of stuff happening, but it wasn't like if I have my phone off during this time, I may lose thousands of dollars. Now, the hard and healthy bent, like, let's say yesterday, I was like I made a good decision. Phones off while we're at universal. That request comes in urgent Nike and Lebron, may want to use your song, Whoa, but this has to get done today and I don't turn my phone on until we get back to the hotel and the request is gone and we miss out on that, on that money. Now, even saying that, right now, I'm like that would still be a godhonoring decision. It's real sacrifice, you know, but I'm just saying. So, I'm not saying that that would be the wrong decision. I'm just saying it starts to get harder when you have when it stuff starts to get bigger and people are like, we have to get this done right now. Hello, like, I know, like I told everybody, I told everybody before I left, I'm on a vacation. I want to be unreachable on, what's it, a Thursday, on Wednesday. HMM. And that's probably why they put urgent in it. HMM. They're like, we know you're on vacations, but hello, Lebron. So, yeah, yeah, and anyway, yeah, and I think that, you know, a lot of people listening, they're not going to be able to necessarily like relate to, Oh, my spouse is a rapper or anything, but they can relate to the whole like making boundaries and maybe one person having one schedule in the other person have the opposite schedule, because you're saying you're probably going to work like nine or like, you know in the morning, until you know, afternoon time, and then that's when he's doing all his work until the we hours of the night. And so if you have those complete outset schedules, then it's like where are you finding that time? Because even your weekends, like your weekends, like you don't have weekends, like yeah, you're constantly grinded. So that's something you guys have had to agree on. Like we're in this, like you know you, like you're like I am marrying this lifestyle, like it's a lifestyle that you're choosing. To be fair, I'm I'm married before the lifestyle. Are you trying to sign with another label? No, no, I don't mind it at all. I always wanted him to pursue it because I knew he was good at it and he would love to do it. But, to be fair, I married him when he was a road manager, m right, and I think that it is so like heartwarming. I wish that our listeners could have hurt our conversation and the Tuesday night, because hearing like your support and like how much you believe in him, like it's phenomenal to hear that and I love like I was even telling Ashley yesterday, like I just...

...appreciate her support of me and what I'm doing, you know, because, like us, going out with you guys on a Tuesday night, like that's our weekend night, and you know, she could easily just be like, I'm going to hang out at home, but you know, she's like no, I want to support you and what you're doing. But like going through tough stuff. I know that you guys have been through some tough times. We talked about your first year in marriage and, like you were, you were describing this scene of just like all out chaos. So can you? Can you have like those are listening him? If you're having like a crazy bad day, you think your life falling apart, listen to this. Yeah, are you talking about the bedbugs? Yeah, he's talking about the bed bugs. Well, I was about to say in the in our actual apartment, the apartment. I mean it is all of it, but okay, but yeah, go ahead. I mean the apartment was horrible. The apartment was bad in the apartment was seven hundred and fifty square feet. Okay, that's you know, people living that all the time, but ours was horrible. It was the floor is not a material that exists there. The floor was made out of stuff that is not it's not a thing and it smelled bad that it had. Our landlords were horrible. We got we got into the apartment made by the skin of our teeth. We so, okay, let's talk about this for a minute. There was this whole prevailing thing for our parents and even now, like I hopefully this doesn't hurt y'all's podcast, but oh, Dave Ramsey, yeah, don't ever, don't have any credit. Don't like buy things, only cash, no matter what. Like, no matter what the situation is, by it cash. If you if you need a car to get to work and you don't have it, cash, ride a bike. Steal a bike and ride it still it. Steal a bike and and ride it to work until you can save up the kid. All right, I know there's a lot of good principles for it, but so you know, our parents were on that. We were on that. So we had we had no credit. We didn't do anything with credit. Right going in and everybody was like cool, where are you going to live? Because we're not. We're we like Oh, okay, can you show US pay stops? No, we're both self employed and I have no credit because they the day ran. Where we're going to live? Nobody's running to us. The Dave Ramsey thing assumes you because you can get into places if you're like, I don't have any credit because of that. Here's my like pay steps from my employer, here's my taxes, whatever, and they'll take that. If your self employed, all that's out the window. Then it's just like in Tennessee it's they're just like, well, it's our prerogative whether we're going to rent to you or not because you don't have like your self employed and you have no credit. To us, that sounds like we're I'm gonna get rent, so good luck on that. Here's a campsite down the road, exactly, like there's a lot of fields, a lot of land out in Bedford County still. But yeah, so nobody and I even had I had first and last saved up. I had three at one point I had three months rent for like, depending on what we were looking at, saved up because I'm thinking yeah, here we go and they're like we couldn't care less, like we're not letting you in. And so, anyway we got into that apartment because one of my best friends shout out Brian Keith Hays. Brian Keith Hays, he's not an artist, he's not he's just a regular guy. Shout out Brian Keith Hays. Anyway, he shout out the regular guys. Now I can't we care wait till he's the other guys are definitely cutting that out. Might make a booker. Okay, you could cut it out. You can cut it out, but at least give it to me just so I have it. What Dylan's early songs? He the entire Hook was just Brian Keith Hays whole name. So maybe it will make it. The podcast that my first mixtape, smoke signal, there's a song on there called sense and and I think the hook is shout out to Brian Keith says, shout out to Brian Keith pays. Anyway. Yeah, it anyway. He knew the landlord of the apartment and that's the only way. They were very reluctant. Never really liked us, but they it was a favor to him. They let us in. They barely wanted us in there. So anyway, we never were late on rent or anything like that, like we were really good tenants. But we found possible mold in there. HMM, definite bedbugs. So AC unit went out twice in July and we were...

...sick. This is all happening. At the same time we're reaching out to our landlord like hey, it's literal hell in here. It's Ghanna in here for you Greek, New Testament and so and sorry, I've got a I've had a lot of coffee, but ton of coffee on coffee is a different is a different thing anything. Okay. So, yeah, so all that's happening. They don't want to help us. They're like you brought the bed bugs. It's not mold, you just want to break your contract. And it's like what, no, we don't. We have nowhere to go. Why would we want to break our contract? It's just that there's mold here. And they're like no, it's not mold, it's you wanted to break your contract. Whatever. They didn't want to believe us. So listen, man, this is a very crazy story. To prove to our landlord's who you would think would want to know if there's bed bugs because of how they spread and if you you can. If it's just a seven hundred and fifty square foot apartment, you can take care of it and the rest of your units are good. But if you sit on it and they spread to all your units, right, all right. So we're trying to tell them. They're like Nah, there's no bad bugs. They're you're lying. You want to break your contract, and so I literally had to trap a bad bug and put it in a plastic bag so that I had proof. Right, anybody who knows anything about bed bugs, this is almost an impossible feat. I know a lot about bad bugs now, but it's almost an impossible feet because they like they I'm sorry I'm taking them so much time of your podcast all this, but like they scurry to like he probably has like ten more quicks. They all right, are they? They scurry the corners and stuff. They don't want to be found, right. So, like, anyway, you got a picture me in there like in game mode, like gloves on, like I got the bag, I got tweezers, I'm like ready to go, because when I do anything like this I'm I'm like all the way into it and so, like you and you, they go under the mattress. So when you flip their gonna scatter. They're going to scatter and get into little crack. So I'm like, all right, one, two, three, flip it. They take off. I'm like diving on there, like kind of giving the first one. Accidentally kill it. It explodes. It's no good to meet anymore. I see one running towards the back corner right and I'm like, okay, you have to get it and be gentle. So I'm like just get it, and it's like still alive. Get it in the bag. I'm like vindication, like this is a this is absolutely a bad bug. This is definitive proof. You can't tell me it's not. Man, we had men. We had spread diet and mass earth all over the the apartment because it said they couldn't pass through that it. That's like a very fine powder, fine powder pesticide type thing. But listen, we had some kind of respiratory thing going in, going on like we were sick. Yeah, and so there's all this extremely fine powder like everywhere. It's like in the air. There's bad bugs. We are also like they're like don't like you have to dry all your clothes because the dryer will kill them. So we're trying not to wear clothes a lot so that they don't get in the clothes. So we're like we have this is, this is before covid we have like the in ninety five mass on, like almost no clothes die to mass earth everywhere with the vacuum, like vacuuming. It was it was so crazy. It was the way. So our AC was out. It was July, so it's ninety seven degrees. The way we slept, though, is because the bites. I was alerted to them, so I'd well, Oh, yeah, like and like the bites were not fun at all and if they if they find food, they're going to keep coming that. So we took all of all of our sheets and all of our comforter off the bed so they couldn't like get into all that. But we slept like fully covered, like we had hoodies, like with long sleeves, is, long sleeves, long pants, socks, like we were covering every part of our body we could so they wouldn't be able to bite us. And we don't have a see in the mall of July, like that's how we slept for like three nights in that apartment until they got this stuff, and sleeping like that, and then the way that I described when it was time to vacuum up the dietmasius earth, which was everywhere. Wow, that was just the apartment. But yeah, also in our first year marriage was a lot of spiritual formation and heartbreak and a lot of what was the other thing I said at the beginning? I don't remember well because Chelsea was working with you as well, like she was your manager, right, taking off during this time. Yeah, so we both had full time jobs and then we would come home and work our second full time job, which was Dylan's music career. So so, yeah, that's basically all. That's that was how we operated for the first couple years of our marriage, which...

...just because, I mean, he was just starting out, but stuff was going well. But I mean when you're just starting out you don't have money to pay people to do stuff right, so you have to keep all that money of yourself. So I was the booking agent, I was shipping merch fulfilling, March, the lawyer I was. Yeah, yeah, I I formed our LLC. I did all that. See, you're making league all documents. I was, yeah, and I was our accountant and I, Oh, I, I did all like the bookings and stuff, like I'd like booked flights for your shows and like got you tells I don't be a dancing for shows. So I was doing all that while he was doing like he was making all the music and doing all the marketing and social media and stuff like that. So we were just basically a two person team for that first little bit, and I mean that's that's how we ran, like there was no there wasn't really any room for much else at that point. That was just how we spend our time. and that sounds like a hard time that, but but it wasn't a hard time that separated you. It was a hard time that probably by brought you even closer together, because you're like having to go through this struggle together, like how are we going to make it through these bed bugs and like doing like that's like hot yoga in the bed, like covered up. Like if y'all, if you're listening to this, you're trying to figure out how to lose some pounds for the summer, I promise you. Yeah, I promise you. If your dressed like that, in Tennessee if you're in Florida. Oh, good guy, you'll wake up like a different person. Yeah, you probably did. Actually, you will make you wake up dead. Yeah, so all your fat, all your famish just be there beside you, laughing at you like you should just stay fat, man. I got you now, you did. Yeah, Ye, ain't got me. has there been a time, though, in the seven year span of marriage where you didn't think like maybe it wasn't bringing you together and there was some kind of conflict that was kind of making a division, where maybe you're like, I don't know if we're going to make it through this from Rough Dylan, kick me out at any chary. Yeah, you were the yeah, I'm the only one that has ever been kicked out in each other. Yes, she was kicked as you did not leave voluntarily. I did not. I did not want to, but ultimately it was good for our marriage because it what we were. We were functioning much more like a business partnership than a marriage, you know, because that was that while all of our conversations were about I don't mean still now, we talked a lot about his career and, you know, game planning and talking stuff through. I'm a sounding board a lot of times. But like originally, even when we made official like our LC, like we were both like partners, like listed with the say, like both of her names were on the business. Yeah, and then we ended up like for other reasons, just because you have to do a separate tactor turn and all. It was just cheaper to make it money just him. So we did that. But but also practically, like I step back once, once it got to a point where it was the option, like we didn't I didn't have to be the one doing the stuff. I think it became healthier for us that it kind of just created a space for us to like have bandwidth and function like not as business partners. But I did not leave voluntarily, if for first no. So, so he kicked you out of indy try, which wasn't even a riff. You're probably like whatever, I was really upset. Oh, you were. Yeah, you're. It was still conversation. It wasn't like he was like comes comes to me as like Babe, you're done, you know, like we had conversations. Might get out. But it was a hard thing for me because it was something I built to like I poured so many hours into it. That I I didn't really the time, like I didn't want to, like a lot of my identity was tied up in it. A lot of like why I felt like I had a seat at the table was because I was doing all that work and I was like well, you know, I was kind of like I don't want to just like I don't want to just be your wife places, like I want to be a contributor to conversation and so like when I in taking a step back from that, I kind of felt like I was losing like my place, especially just like as a woman in those circles. Lots of times, I mean like shout out Aaron fout out Aaron Knight, Aaron Knight, she does all his like mark she's like beatyod and does all his marketing stuff now, but she's like a pioneer for women in the Christian hip hop music business space, because there just aren't women there. So it was or if there are women, but they're like overlooked. Their overlooked. Yes, so that was like kind of struggle for me too, because when I was doing a lot of that work, I really felt validated when I was at the shows and in those spaces because I was doing a lot of work and people, people knew that, you know, and so stepping back from it kind of got hard to me because I was like what am I going to do, like I'm just going to be there, you know, and so it's kind of hard...

...for me to step back just into the role of his wife, and that's probably tough for any spouse of influencer or celebrity where you're thinking, okay, I got to find my own either I got to find my own thing to like bring me up like on their level, or I gotta be with their thing so that, like you said, I'm not just this person the shadows at. I mean it takes a very special person to just be okay with that person getting all the spotlight and get to go to all the cool parties and award shows and that you're just like I'm part of it. Not Really, but at especially when you were a part of it and then going to not like I'm sure that's challenging. Was that the thing that you took to your church to say like Hey, we are struggling. Was it that or was it something different? No, it that that. What was that? Yeah, that that's kind that's what I was talking when Chelsea was like, he's talking about the dead bugs, but I was thinking about was. So that, yeah, that was no, that that had nothing to do with music. That was yeah, that was like our marriage falling apart because of just because of sin, because of my sin, because of secrets that I had and that hadn't been dealt with and that I had to like confess to Chelsea something stuff that we had never liked dealt with before, and we needed the churches. We needed the churches help with that, you know, like and I talked about it like in my music and Stud I think I'm just gonna talk about it because it's like easier to just yep, I spend as long as I'm good. Okay, all right, in the first year of our marriage I had three separate affairs with with not like it had nothing to do with music. It was just like my life, like just life stuff, but three separate affairs and confessed that to Chelsea. So yeah, so sorry, I'm trying to like lay this foundation so that we can keep going. But had three separate affairs. Wasn't caught like for like all intents and purposes, had got away with it's a big part of my spiritual story to which is why I'm trying to lay this foundation correctly. But yeah, had gotten away with it, but except for God. God was I felt like David where he said he could feel like conviction in his bones, like he couldn't sleep at night, he felt like he was wasting away in his bed. God was not willing to leave me in that place of secrecy and destruction. He was not willing to allow me to keep hurting Chelsey and people around me, and so he just just him himself, just laid like conviction on me, like your you've got you have to confess this, you have to yeah, you have to confess and and repent from this. And there was like a lot of wrestling going on where, like I I stops and cut off like all communication for like six months, and I was like, you know, trying to bargain with God, like never do it again, I'm done. I repent to you, you know, and can we just move forward with this? Essentially trying to trying to read scripture in a way that would allow for that, trying to, you know, find Christians online who had that opinion like you should just stop and not and and not Confett and I you can find it whatever you want on the Internet. So finding like Christians, like yeah, like you just have to live with that guilt, but you you need to stop and don't bring anybody else into that pain. Essentially, so you don't need to confess whatever. And God was like no, like God was like you know what I've said to you, and it's...

...not going to work until you actually come out and live in the light. And so I but I still was wrestling with him. They want to listen, and I eventually like prayed. You know, God, if you want me to confess to Chelsea, then you know, just don't let me rest. And I'm in it, like kind of spiritually, like trouble my heart, trouble my mind, and he liked started taking sleep away from me, like immediately, like it was just not going down, like I'm tired, it's late, whatever. You know, we're working those jobs, the jobs that we just describe fulltime jobs, and that job now and not being able to sleep. Um, and so one night was like, okay, tomorrow I'm confessing all of this to Chelsea. You know, obviously hardest thing that I had ever imagine doing, and up until this point I've been a very secretive person, very like private person, you know, just kind of hiding stuff, obviously, and so that was not something that was not something that I could do on my own power or that like even made sense for my personality at the time or whatever, or my or my track record or anything. So I mean it was obviously the spirit. It was obviously the spirit of God who who convicted me and who empowered me to confess. So anyway, yeah, next day, hardest, hardest day, have to like like look at Chelsea in the face and confess these things to her. And Yeah, that we kind of immediately knew we are not going to be able to handle this in this little apartment by ourselves, like we need help, like we need we need the church's help. And I mean I don't want to move on to that part until you let if you want to talk about the part that I just talked about. I don't have a liouse to say. I mean that was just is a very hard time. Then we didn't eat the church and then our church at the time wasn't there for us. Yeah, I see. What was your heart reaction to hearing that and how were you able to overcome that? Obstacle and continue to be here. So, honestly, my instinct, because of the way I was raised, church culture I came from and what I can now identify as a lot of codependency, was to immediately tell him I forgive him and pretend like it didn't happen. So and that's just not healthy. And but at the time I didn't have any other coping skills. I mean that's a bomb that goes off and you know, it's like, well, you know, I know divorce isn't an option and I know, you know, because of like you know, my cultures, like that wasn't something that I even considered it and I'm grateful that we didn't. But you know, it's kind of like all right, where do we turn from here? Like I don't I I have no I have no skills for this, like I I have nothing, and and also just a lot of like like pride and like wanting my marriage to look good to people. And so it's like, you know, I I'm not going off like telling everybody like oh my gosh, like what this like, what do I do? Because it's like, well, I don't want everybody to view us as like this marriage is falling apart. So, but I knew we needed help, and so, as I we got to go to our church, and we did, and then that just that church that we had been a part of at that time. They didn't have a fact of skills to deal with that either. In fact, they made it worse. And so and I'm in a place now where it's like I'm still honestly now, like I'm I'm pretty open about like I'm in counseling now and like a lot of the stuff. You know, this was all disclosed five, five and a half years ago now, but I'm just now getting to a place where I feel like I'm even actually doing the processing work. That should have happened back then, but I didn't have the support system or the skill set to do it. And so, you know, I'm able to go through counseling and like get some like I'm in MDR, is great, if you haven't heard of it's like trauma based there, like it's for trauma, like it's great.

So, like just for people who don't even know that those things are options, because I didn't know those are options. I didn't really know I needed help. And so, but now that we're we're at City Church and Murphy sprow now and have been. Basically we ended up at city church about three months after all this happened, when our former church did not handle it well at all. In City Choke Church, like he had mentioned earlier, like the their motto is like for broken people and they're very open about their brokenness and they meet you in your brokenness and like the fact that we went there in the state that we were. We were incredibly honest about where we're at and they didn't flinch, like they didn't. They just were like, thank you for telling us. How can we walk with you, and like that's how Christ is, you know, and the fact that like our pastor, trevor, like he was very open with us about struggles his marriage at had and he is open from the poolpit about those things. And so going into a culture that was very helpful. But at the same time I didn't really know what I needed, and especially coming right out of that other church where it was it was really more spiritually abusive than anything, and so reeling out of you know, all of this just came to light. We're trying to process it through. I mean one of the first things they told us and our first meeting was to not tell anyone, which, if anybody ever tells you that, like that's not biblical. Like you need your church family, you need to walk in confession, you need people to speak into your life. But they they wanted to like squash gossip or whatever, so they were like, don't talk to anybody, we're going to get you like mentors, like we're going to sign people to you, and they took five weeks to do that. So the first five weeks, after all this has come out, we have no one. We're told not to talk to anybody. We're not going to go against our pastor who told us not to do that, but they also haven't provided the people. So like, we just really like it became a very survival situation for me. Just, you know, I can't I don't know how to deal with this and I don't have any support to deal with this, so I'm just gonna decide everything's okay. HMM. And so my story is similar. I was on your end of my first marriage. My ex wife had two affairs, and I think that a lot of people listening are probably hearing. How could Chelsea stay with deal? How could deal do that? To Chelsea. But I think that the reality is and what Jesus speaks about, because there's a lot of incorrect theology about, you know, this action that was done is worse than maybe somebody looking at pornography or somebody lusting. But Jesus says it's on the same page. If you go, I murder somebody and you have angry thoughts of somebody, it's on the same page. Like it's a sin level. I mean, obviously it's harder to take and harder to hear and takes a lot more grace from your partner to say, Oh wow, like you, you went far enough to commit that. But I think that cut like, especially young married Christians. They need to understand that. Like there's probably a lot of stuff. I mean, I don't want to like get anybody in trouble, but there's probably stuff that is in the dark in relationships that doesn't it doesn't get talked about because they think it's no big deal. It's something small, at something little. It's not as big as this affair or, you know, they say that there's these other things. You know, you start comparing your sin or whatever, and I think that number one, the fact that you could confess that openly and then take the second step of repentance, because if you keep doing it like that, that's how my marriage fell apart. was just like there wasn't repentance. There was like there was confession, but it was like I'm still going down that path. And then, on the other hand, like, I mean, you could have easily just said all right, I'm out, I'm done, like the Bible says. You know, this is something that could call for divorce. But having that grace and then just being able to say, okay, we're broken people. And then you go to the church and you know, shame on the first church for not being able to help you through that. But the fact that now city church is helping you guys, to the fact that you are now community leaders, like you guys have your own community group that you are leading together, and you're like not holding this over his head and he's not having to you know, he's not still going out and like you're not living in sin, you're like living in you guys said a word for it the other day of like like exponential grace or like a grace abounding or just and I think that like that that is so big that you guys have now come to that that place, to where, hey, we went through some broken stuff, but now here we are, and I bet that testimony can resonate without it. I...

...mean it resonates with me, you know, like you know, I wanted to say that marriage, you know, when I was in that moment, but it's like it takes both sides and I actually say something. Yes, that yeah. So, yeah, after that city church, the church that we came to, they were able to, yes, meet us with with that grace and that understanding and they were able to magnify Jesus is grace. One thing you said earlier is that, like you know, Jesus puts those on the same playing field. I think where we can get in trouble is thinking that Jesus brought murder and adultery down to the level of just of just anger and or just less. But that's not what he did. He was bringing anger and lust up. So like murder and adultery really are as vile as we innately feel like they are. He was bringing anger and lust up there, not bringing those down. It's not it's not like a way to kind of be like, I mean, Hey, but you know, I I could meet like. I can't be like, you know, yeah, I committed adultery, but we all look at poort. It's not the thing like it. The adultery should feel like it always did. Absolutely Jesus bringing it up so like. But the city church was able to to meet us in our brokenness and not heap shame and condemnation on us, but remove shame and condemnation, not by saying it's all good, kind of like we just talked about a second go, but by saying Jesus is grace. Is just that huge, it's that scandalous, it's that massive, it's not all good. It is just as bad as it feels inside. But we're talking about ultimate love and whether that whether shame and kind of nation should exist. It does exist. It's just that Jesus took it. He took the shame and content condemnation upon himself so that you don't have to feel that. So they were able to, they were able to like explain that to us in words, but even more show that to us with how they treated us during that time and then how they walked with us after. The thing is, it wasn't like we just went to them and they you know, said what I just said and they were like it's all good, like we love you guys, come worship with us. It was okay, let's get you. It was. It was all that stuff. And then also like here are couples that you can walk through this with like daily, like weekly, like we're going to their house and we are talking about our marriage for, I mean like in a very structured since for like a year and then. But that's just also part of the culture. So really, this whole time we've always had like couples in our lives, you know. And so it. I'm just saying that because I don't want it to sound like to anybody who may be struggling with this who hears this, that it was like okay, this, you know, this sin happened, the confession happened and boom, now now you guys are how you are now. Know, it was a long process of first of all reframing who the father is, reframing who God. I mean that was huge for us. We thought God was capricious and Aloof and far off and begrudgingly, is gonna barely let us into his presence. And we first had to that had to be completely reframed into who God really is, who is a happy father. He's happy with us, like ecstatic with us because of Jesus, because because all that is Jesus, all that belongs to Jesus, is given to us. In his substitution is righteousness. That means God is not like I'm kind of way, not you to mess up. It means God is, this is my daughter, this is my son with whom I'm well, please. So that reframing had to happen. Well, confession, repentance had to happen, that reframe it had happened, and then discipleship and mentorship to this day had to happen. So it's a long, involved road. Sometimes, you know, two steps forward, one set back. Sometimes two steps forward, three steps back. Years, you know, we're talking years and not something that can be taken flippantly or can be devout or like belittled or anything like. But I do think that even though even now, even like literally right now in our life, sometimes it's like really hard to see the the fruit, or like the shore our pastor...

...talks about, like you see the you see the water that you're in right now and the sharks and and and you don't see the shore that you're going to. You know that God's taking you to. Like sometimes it's hard to see the fruit. Sometimes it's hard to see the shore right now in our lives. But even through conversations like this and like thinking back to that time, like the fruit that God has brought to it. First of all, just revealing like who he is actually and getting us out of it's like, man, that was a horrible situation. You know you, like Joseph, went through horrible situations to get where it was. But it's like before that we did not. We we didn't. We were not looking at the father correctly. We weren't looking at each other correctly either. Like there was so much that guy worked out just in showing us what who he is, what marriage is, what empathy is, what like Chelsea's talking about, what like being equipped to eat? I mean there's all kinds of like ripple effects. But valuing her own opinion and her own voice and trusting her emotions and her intuitions and knowing when when things are wrong and voicing that and stand and standing behind her opinions and and and and reaching out for helping and saying when things are wrong, you know, and not just doing things because of tradition or or to save face. You know, like all that, there's just so much fruit. And then the fruit to other couples that we have mentored through our community groups, through just doing life with people. Like everybody at our Church knows this story. It's this. This was like the first situe. I'm about to wrap up, but this is like the first situation that I kind of felt like weary about talking about it. Usually, like, which is what Chelsea was alluding to, usually I'm just like we talked about this, you know, everybody in our church knows this and like all the artists that I work with everything. But honestly, I just hadn't spent that much time with you guys. I haven't like your podcast isn't out yet. My My, if we were talking off record, and I knew it would say off record when we were at like the restaurant, if we just met Yall, it would have just been like an open book, but I just want to make sure I'm protecting like her especially, but also also both of us. So I just kind of felt weird because it's like, I don't know how this podcast sounds like and and I just met you guys, not as like a you know, not trying to hurt us feelings, but that was the only hesitation, is what I'm saying. But got it. Yeah, God has used our story to heal us. He's still in the middle of it. It's still hard, we're still going through it, but he also has produced a lot of fruit in other people through our stories. And you know, I always say like I hope, like I have scars, we have scars. I hope our scars make it to the other people don't have to get wounded at all. Yeah, so, all right, I just want to wrap that up. So there was more like for sure. Yeah, yeah, first of all, thank you guys for opening up to talk about that, because that's huge and I do believe, you know, just having that confession. Is this suffer the first time your fan base would be hearing this? Um, it's kind of hard to say. I mean it. I feel like it's blessed. We both feel like it's like blamely in my music, but again in not everybody, like not everybody can receive information like that from music. I have talked about it like before, but I don't, I think probably for a lot of people, ever been explicitly laid out like an interviewer podcast situation. Yeah, I don't think so. I mean he he was on a podcast for our church and it was on there. Oh, yeah, but, like, you know, in terms of stuff that like is probably going to get to the fans, you know, like or more geared towards the fan. Probably not. But I mean, like, I know you said you were listening to close, like like yeah, so many people love that song. Close, I don't it to me. It's in it's explicit on like what we've been through. You know what I said, like it's if you really listen to lyrics, like you kind of have to do it dance to assume it means something else. Yeah, can't Cha. But sometimes people don't listen to the lyrics like that or and sometimes people just kind of go oh, that it must mean something else. Yeah, canopy, the canopy, it's it's very yeah, close is like I kind of just tell the story in the first person. Canopy it's more metaphorical, but it's all the way there, because all of this was before like my first album. But burn on canopy is really about that. That's...

...like the most explicit on it. But yeah, so it is definitely the first of this format. Well, the last thing I'll say because you talked about reframing and I think it was really huge what you talked about that. I mean, because it sounds like that whole thing made you reframe, just like what is marriage? What what is our faith? You know, what is a church to us, like what's that going to be? But you also talked about like reframing, like a how your parents did family units versus how now you guys are, you know, see the family unit. Can you talk on that? For me, a big, a big reframing, and this like has come into it's just that my family didn't really talk about stuff like hard things. We just I mean, I never saw a conflict between parents like which in some ways it's a blessing, but now I've seen the flip side of that. Of like I had no like skills on how to like communicate when there was a difference of opinion or you know. So it's like in just my family just doesn't typically talk about anything that's hard. Like we never talk about politics, we never talk about even really, even though I grew up, they grew up taking all of us to church every single week. My family was so pluged in. We didn't really have a lot of conversations about God or about you know. So it's like there's so that to me is like the big thing that I just didn't have a lot of instance, is still a challenge for me to like speak my mind or say what I think if I know the person I'm talking to probably want to agree with it. So to me that's a big thing of like I've learned largely to do with us, but just in general, like I think that is a frame and my parents arants have their own reasons for why that like, you know, it's like just like I didn't feel equipped bry my family to talk about her stuff. They didn't either, you know. So it's not it's not a slide on my parents at all. My parents were great parents, but that is something that as I've moved into adulthood, that I've noticed that there is, I have, a lack in that area that I definitely want to try to figure out so when we do have children, like they are equipped to handle conflict and to speak their mind and to do this stuff like that. Yeah, and I second that to just transparency. I mean really, it's echoing what she said. But, yeah, I grew up, we we had deep and hard conversations, but not. Yeah, we we did have deep and hard conversations, but are I guess it's a little different. Our thing was like it's family business, which I understand the Merrit in that and I get the thinking in the heart, but that what can happen is, like we keep we keep stuff in the family if there's conflict in the family, like or yeah, conflict in the family, or there's something that shouldn't be happening in the family, or you're hurt by somebody in the family or Um, yeah, or even if it's just like a sin thing, you just keep that like all in the family. We can handle that at the house. We don't bring people into that. That's our business, right and not now. My parents definitely weren't like if somebody hurts you were keeping that in the family, they would be appalled at that, like definitely not. But the thing is when you're in you're kid, you don't know all the nuances and stuff, like whatever whatever the phrase is and whatever you see modeled the you're going to do that like to the extreme. So parents could mean, of course, if somebody in the family hurts you, like tell somebody, but if the culture of the family is none, no, we keep that in the family, like, you know, then the kid doesn't know that, you know, like unless it's like explicitly said. Kids don't know anything unless is explicitly said. It's kind of what we're saying. Like you have to have those conversations. And but then I anyway, I think that directly affects marriage, whereas, like I I looked at marriage that way, you know, and you can see in our situation the spirit did the work, because if we had taken that approach, that approach loses all benefit in that situation. If it was like, okay, this is this is family business. Handle this happened between us, but we got to handle this between the two of us, or even we got to handle this between the two of US and some other family members, you know, but this can't get out like that, that air of secrecy and and hiding for an image or for a saving face or whatever. Like thank God that...

...he came in and was like all of that's out of the window, like tell on yourself, then go tell people, you know, because they are going to be able to walk with to to help me drag you out of darkness into light, and then we're all going to walk together on this path of like you know what I mean. And I say that because I I prayed that to God, like that he would it's a cowardly prayer, but he answered it. It's like, I don't want to step into the light, like can you dragged me out of this darkness. You know what I mean. And that can't happen if you circle the wagons and be like, Oh, we got it, we gotta make sure our our family name is good, you know. And so, yeah, so good. I could talk to you guys for hours and hours, like we're going to have to do a sequel to this. We're going to have to have you guys will go to Disney next time? Yeah, yeah, Hey, wait, I thought you were a Knick Kid. You'RE gonna go to Disney next time. Well, I okay, yeah, I want to go to Disney. That's me sacrificially loving her. Well, I love that we went all the way from Nickelodeon to talking about the potential of you guys having a child, like a little dill pickles, you know, like rug rats. There we go. So I feel like we went full circle today. Shoutout Dylan Prescott pickles. That's his middle name. You can look it up. Dylan Prescott. The fact that you knew that I love it. So I have appreciated any and all time that we've had together. I hope that we continue to stay in touch. And but if people are trying to stay in touch with you, maybe just by listening to your stuff, seeing everything you got going. What's the Hashtag? What is the handle? What are they looking for? It's no big deal on anywhere you could consume music or social media, anything. So that's Ino big dyl because my name is Dylan. So dyl in, obig dyl at, no big deal on all social media, no big deal on spotify, on Apple Music, if you type in in obig dyl on Google, it'll only be me that comes up. Awesome, amazing. Yeah, if you don't go to check him out, I mean the fact his name is dyl like, why the l would you not go check him out? Wow, okay, okay, actually I just rip that off a young life, so probably can't say that. But anyways, it's been a pleasure to have you guys here. If you're still listening, we love you, guys, and until next time, stay young, stay married, but definitely stay Christian. Sign all right, y'all, we hope you loved that conversation here at Your married Christian we are on a mission to see a Gospel centered home made available for every single child in the foster care system. There are four hundred thousand kids in the foster care system and they are four hundred thousand churches in America. Y'All. The church can solve this problem. If you want to join us on this mission, text the word freedom to eight three, three, three seven hundred, one six, one hundred. And another thing you can do to help us grow the reach of this podcast is to leave a rating in apple podcast. It's super simple. Just go to the show's page, scroll down and give us a rating for this show, debot. What's a good rating? Typically just count the fingers on my hand and then I click that many stars. All right, so we're not telling you to give us a five star rating, but for the love of everything holy, it would help us tongue if you went and give us a rating. I guess for that guy that has four fingers, just add one. Yes, you don't even have to leave a review because, let's be real, that takes too long, just go to apple podcasts and leave us a rating. Yes, but seriously, though, if you do nothing else, at least text the word freedom to eight three three three seven hundred one six one hundred and eight three, three, three seven out one and six one hundred. Hey, three three thirty seven out one six one hundred and eight three three three seven out one six one hundred. And people, best friends up until I had to get confessions with distress. Now we are gonna need some Minni session. Feel the paint a rise. How could I like? Night after night by your side, all the while keeping eyes down inside, put my bows to the side. Now, your eyes closed tight in a knife. Valentines just another day feeling out of place, and I really hate me. Really when I see your face, then I contemplate what if I erace me to far better that than facing the truth. Someone better waiting for...

...you, someone who is faithful to you. Grab me by my face with your wedding band up, but gets my job, but gets my said I'm here to stay. That's for every win, that's for every loss, every I can never estimate price you paid to forget my foss's baby girl. You don't have to take this. She said, boy, you'RE gonna have to face you close. I'll never let you go. Come let me in your all, all the hole you clothe. How do people get like me? You Ain't never seen a wreck like like you never owe the debt like me. How you gonna save a wretch like me? I might turn up bottle to a hospitals. Somebody carve the Canyon and my skis on a real Gandy turn ready. Might need a bandage, need a friend. I feel so abandoned, but I know I deserve it. I don't even want to fight the verdict. I don't need some kind of words. I have hurt everyone I know. I know worst in fing birds really kind of covers here to go, cuz I don't know what's next. When I die, will I fly? Will I love it? I love it. Well, I paid the price for rejecting everything you gave. How much does your grace cars when I face off with my past and I lose the game? Build a sand castle out of fear. And now I pray that you're send away. Will you renovate? Will you terminate? If you're even there? You just probably hate me to Puy grab me by my hand and I've got the spirit moving my heart and I said I live again. And then I liked is nail to the cross. I could never estimate by you paid to forget my fault. And I said, Lord, I can never play this. He said, boy, you gonna have to face you close on. I'll never you go. Now, come let me your hole. You close. I wanna you close. I'll never let you come. Let me you you.

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